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TRUTH:
"Have No Fellowship With the Unfruitful Works of Darkness, But Rather EXPOSE Them!" ~ GOD, Ephesians 5:11

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May 17, 2007

"Sex, Teens & Drugs" during the World Affairs Conference

Right here at a public school in my hometown, a four-panelist discussion titled: "Sex, Teens & Drugs".
What are Boulder High School kids really learning about sex and drugs?

AUDIO <<- Click here to listen to excerpts from a Conference on World Affairs panel discussion at Boulder High School. Is this sex ed gone way too far? (less than 10min.)

Dr. Joel Becker, a professor of psychology, grabbed the attention of the audience by opening with a bold statement: "I am going to encourage you to have sex and encourage you to use drugs appropriately...why I'm going to take that position is because you're going to do it anyway."

Dr. Becker told the audience what research supports: that, regardless of whether parents and other authority figures tell teens to abstain from sex, they won't. A national study conducted in 2002 by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention shows that at the age of 15, 25 percent of boys and 26 percent of girls engaged in sexual intercourse, and 35 percent of boys and 26 percent of girls engaged in oral sex. Eighteen-year-olds' sexual activity was more than double: 70 percent of girls and 62 percent of boys engaged in intercourse, and 74 percent of both girls and boys engaged in oral sex.

Since most adolescents, by the time they graduate from high school, will have experienced an intimate relationship, the comments by the panelists addressed many of the questions that teens privately ask and most sex education classes do not communicate...

*You can download the full audio of this outrageous Conference on World Affairs panel discussion on sex and drugs at Boulder High School HERE on the Caplis and Silverman show.

Here are some more quotes from the four panelists of "experts":

“Find some balance with having the fun and experimenting and enjoying what you’re doing, whether it’s learning sexually, or with drugs and alcohol, and hanging your with your friends, but keep focused, because you know, it is your life…”

“I want to encourage you all to have healthy sexual behavior. Now what is healthy sexual behavior? Well, I don’t care if it’s with men and men, women and women, men and women, whatever combination you would like to put together...”

“But when you’re 13, 12, 13, 14, certainly probably one the most appropriate sexual behaviors would be masturbation, masturbate, please masturbate...”

“We all experiment. It’s very natural for young people to experiment with same-sex relationships…But you know, if you’ve had that indoctrination, you think well, maybe there’s something wrong with me, maybe I’ve sinned, I’m dirty, all these other things that take a bad situation and make it much worse, in my opinion.”

"One of the problems we have right now is that religious communities are trying to give us information and sometimes that information isn’t correct.”

When a female student asked, “should you have sex with someone you like, but he doesn’t love you?” Three panelists giggled and said "yes", followed by roaring cheers from the audience, then one panelist said, “it depends...”

“From a female’s perspective, it [sex] doesn’t always have to be about love, and it doesn’t always have to be about long term relationships, it feels the same way both ways.”

Dr. Becker criticized abstinence-only programs and, according to research studies, rightfully so. Many of these programs give bogus information to our teens...
Some allude to religious customs by emphasizing monogamy and fidelity, stating that sexual relationships outside of marriage can cause psychological and physical harm. And others give the impression that babies born out of wedlock impair society and the families to whom they belong.

Yeah, because waiting until marriage to have sex and children is so destructive to a person's emotional and physical well-being, right?

Gee, I wonder why we have such large percentages of teens having sex, STD's, unwanted pregnancies, drug addictions, fatherless children and abortions? It's a good thing our tax dollars are going to these extensive public school sex-ed programs so the "professionals" can teach children what they really need to learn in life.

When you lower the standards for children by assuming they are "going to do it anyway" then encourage them to engage in reckless, harmful behavior and perverted sexual encounters, we shouldn't surprised when kids reach those low standards.

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*Related post => Public Schools are Made for FOOLS!

27 comments:

  1. Abstinence and "safe sex" should both be taught. Like it or not, it is a different world we live in today.

    It's a very Godless generation and something we have to deal with. As Christians, we can't bury our head in the sand and think that everyone is going to abstain just because we would like them to or because God commanded it.

    Kids don't think that way. They think they are invincible. It is ridiculous to scare kids with STDs and pregnancy...yah, it is definitely a consequence, and a grave one, but kids think it will never happen to them. They are immature! They think they know it all!

    I believe if you teach them to respect their bodies and that sex is not something that they should ever feel pressured to do or "experiment" with, you'll get farther. But unfortunately, that has to come from home. Self respect is instilled in children from their parents.

    Alot of kids are not blessed with parents who care to build up their self respect because they are too wrapped up in their own lives.

    Let's be realistic. Public schools are not overflowing with Christian teachers and students. And something needs to be done to control the epidemic.

    So if kids are going to "experiment", then they better have the option of protection from STDs and pregnancy.

    I went to public school from kindergarten to graduation and I turned out just fine. No sex. No drugs. No wild partying. No "experimentation".

    I didn't need to be home schooled or sent to a Christian school to develop my morals and protect me from all the bad stuff in the world. My parents taught me to respect my body--they didn't have to scare it into me. No one "assumed I was going to do it anyway", but guess what? MOST KIDS ARE GOING TO DO IT ANYWAY.

    It has been happening for years and years--this is nothing new. The only thing that has changed, is that now as a society, we are ACKNOWLEDGING it is happening and are attempting to try to control the fire in some way so that kids aren't having abortions and contracting STDs.

    I'd rather my tax dollars fund safe sex programs that are aiming to prevent unwanted pregnancies and STDs then pay for another abortion because some kids, thought it would "never happen to them" and couldn't control themselves in a moment of lust.

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  2. Sandalina said ->>"I went to public school from kindergarten to graduation and I turned out just fine. No sex. No drugs. No wild partying. No "experimentation"."<<

    Well then, you are definitely the exception to the rule. Good for you.

    >>"It has been happening for years and years--this is nothing new. The only thing that has changed, is that now as a society, we are ACKNOWLEDGING it is happening."<<

    DO you really think that this kind of sexual immorality happened 50 years ago? No, it was unheard of and considered shameful.

    Yeah, "everyone is doing it" because society has lowered it's moral standards to the cesspool level, and now we are promoting and encouraging this kind behavior among today's youth.

    >>"I'd rather my tax dollars fund safe sex programs that are aiming to prevent unwanted pregnancies and STDs then pay for another abortion because some kids, thought it would "never happen to them" and couldn't control themselves in a moment of lust."<<

    So are you confident enough in the system to send your child to public school? Will you encourage your child to experiment with sex and drugs since everyone is doing it anyway?

    Do you think Christian children being educated by the government is God's design for families?

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  3. So let's say this approach leads to less unwanted pregnancy, less harmful drug use, less STDs, less behavioural problems, better school performance, happier kids, etc etc. Would you still think it's wrong? Just because you happen to have adopted the arbitrary rules of the Bible?

    I'm a little skeptical myself, but only because I'd want to see evidence that it really does work to combat the negative effects of sex and drugs, rather than leading to even more kids doing them in a desctructive manner. If all it does is improve the lives of everyone involved, what the hell is wrong with it?

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  4. If all it does is improve the lives of everyone involved, what the hell is wrong with it?

    It's the same old problem that you get when discussing the realities of a behaviour, belief, or philosophy with many on the YEC side of things. Dani doesn't believe that premarital sex among anyone (I'm pretty certain that she focuses on teens in this case only for emotional impact: her beliefs extend to young and old on this one) is wrong because it leads to "STD's, unwanted pregnancies, drug addictions, fatherless children and abortions". More accurately, I would say that Dani believes that premarital sex among anyone leads to "STD's, unwanted pregnancies, drug addictions, fatherless children and abortions" because that justifies her biblical views on the matter. If it's "fornication", like her bible says it is, then it must be bad. Since there's no gray area or compromise in her bible, the next step, of course, is to find as many sources that will say that premarital sex is bad and then utilize them, regardless of credibility, to support that opinion.

    To sum this up, it doesn't matter if there are better ways to reduce the kinds of risk that we all know (because of countless studies on the subject) some students will engage in whether we tell them to or not. It doesn't matter that, by not having the right information, those students who go out and do these things anyway will be at far greater risk of some very unpleasant potential consequences than they would otherwise. It also doesn't matter that no one actually disagrees that abstinence is a very good choice (just one that is impossible to enforce, universally, without locking children in the house or clapping them in leg-irons). What matters is only that the biblical position is supported, even if the children suffer for it.

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  5. I can give you more exceptions to the rule...

    My sister, all my friends from church, one of my best friends who didn't become a Christian until late in high school.

    She grew up in a "non-Christian" home and went to public school all her life and still waited until marriage to have sex, and also never experimented with drugs and alcohol. She met one of my friends from church and became a Christian and later married him and they are a beautiful, happy family.

    You will find many "exceptions" of good kids Christian or non-Christian if you would just look. It's not public schools that are the problem...it's the media. Music and music videos, movies, tv shows that push the envelope, that's the problem. That's who is glorifying all of this and making kids entertain the idea.

    50 years ago people WERE having sex and doing drugs and getting knocked up and infected with STDs. Ask your parents. HOWEVER, 50 years ago, it wasn't glorified on television every night and in Hollywood where kids idolize the Paris Hiltons of the world.

    Kids are having sex and experimenting--some kids...not all kids. Someone better do something to control the epidemic because unfortunately, there isn't going to be a world wide revival where everyone repents and follows Christ. That would be ideal, but it's not going to happen.

    Go after the media, not the public schools.

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  6. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  7. Do you think Christian children being educated by the government is God's design for families?

    I forgot to answer this. Schools (in a public sense I guess) didn't even really exist until like 425 A.D. or something crazy like that, so there is no real clear guideline on what God's design for the education system is since it never existed when the Bible was written.

    I don't think God cares if my kids go to public school or home school or Christian school. It's ultimately MY responsibility to teach my kids right from wrong and sheltering them from every horrid thing that could happen to them in public school is living in fear.

    Sheltering a child makes them way more curious in my opinion. Teaching them to stand up against temptation and trusting that you did a good job raising makes more sense to me then excluding them from the outside world. I don't think they will be able to handle it when they get out there--or people won't be able to handle them and their naive outlook on the world.

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  8. Phronk - How exactly does encouraging kids to screw around and do drugs improve the lives of everyone involved?

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    Uber - How exactly will children suffer by waiting until they are married to have sex and avoiding drug use?

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    Sandalina - You are being naive if you think public schools have no effect on kids. Sure the media plays a role in the corruption of kids, but how many hours of tv are kids watching a day? From age 5-18 children spend 7-8 hours a day at school 9 months out of the year. You don't think that has some negative impact? You aren't there during those hours and there aren't enough hous in the day to undo all the crap they learn.

    *Read this => Sex, Drugs, and Delinquency in Urban and Suburban Public Schools

    Also, since you are a Christian, don't you think you have an obligation to find out what God really says on the subject of educating your children?
    I know you are already inclined to be combative with me, but since you are about to have your own children I would strongly encourage you to pray about it and seek the right counsel because you only get one chance to raise your kids, you better do it right.

    The research data on the success of the public schools in indoctrinating Christian youth with humanistic or neo-pagan worldviews is overwhelming. The Nehemiah Institute's worldview PEERS test shows that 83-percent of the children from committed Christian families in public schools adopt a secular humanist or Marxist socialist worldview. At the SBC's 2002 annual meeting, the Southern Baptist Council on Family Life reported, among other disturbing things, that 88-percent of the children raised in evangelical homes leave church at age 18. Barna Research reports that only 9-percent of born-again teens believe in moral absolutes, and more than half believe that Jesus sinned while He was on earth. The fact that 80-percent of Christian families send their children to public schools is a prime reason for this lost legacy.

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  9. Phronk - How exactly does encouraging kids to screw around and do drugs improve the lives of everyone involved?

    Dani - I presented hypothetical questions, so that question is sorta missing the point of what I said. I also wish you'd address my questions before asking your own (see below).

    But I'll bite anyway. First, you left out the most important part of the position in your question - the point is that they are encouraging kids to screw around SAFELY and do drugs SAFELY. Not to do these things in the first place, but to do them safely given that they are already doing them.

    Second, these people are educated scientists who, presumably, are experts in this area. They base their reasoning on actually looking at kids and seeing whether their lives are improved or not.

    Personally, I'm going to trust people who have actually examined this and thought about it over Dani's personal hunch that it could not possibly do any good.

    Now I'll repeat the questions from my last post...and note their hypothetical nature, which makes whether this is ACTUALLY good for people or not irrelevant:

    let's say this approach leads to less unwanted pregnancy, less harmful drug use, less STDs, less behavioural problems, better school performance, happier kids, etc etc. Would you still think it's wrong? Just because you happen to have adopted the arbitrary rules of the Bible?

    And let me add another one: What the hell is wrong with masturbation? You mention the quote encouraging masturbation as if it's a horrible thing to say. I doubt that not even you can deny that A) Everyone masturbates (especially males, which may be an unfortunate cultural gender difference). Your husband masturbates. B) What good could denying masturbation possibly do for anyone?

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  10. In a recent survey, it was discovered that the mean age for teenagers who did NOT have abstinence only sex education to lose their virginity was 14.7 years. This news was of slight concern for me, as it sounds pretty low.

    Interestingly enough, the figure for the mean age for teenagers who DID have abstinence only sex education to lose their virginity was, drumroll please................. 14.7 years. There was absolutely no difference between the one gropu and the other.

    Thus we can see abstinence only sex education doesn't work. Now, this doesn't mean that they need to be encouraged (and I find it bizarre that anyone would encourage children to do this). However, it does have very serious consequences.

    See, we live in the real world, and however much we would like it to be a utopia as conforming to whatever particular views we may have (I, for instance, would like the entire British right-wing to relocate to Antarctica), we have to accept that, however unfortunately, these things may never happen. Now, having accepted this basic principle, we need to make the best possible situation out of what we are given.

    This means that, given abstinence only sex education [i]doesn't[/i] work and children [i]are[/i] going to have sex anyway, we need ot make sure they do it in the safest possible manner.

    Now, obviously, some of them won't listen (but then, if they won't listen to that, why would they listen to abstinence?) and will have unprotected sex. There's not a lot we can do for those people.

    Then, there will be some who will listen to it, or will at least have the knowledge if such a situation should arise. The main trouble with abstinence only education is not that it doesn't work, it's that when it fails, there's no contingency plan. These kids have no idea about the proper use of contraception, nothing. That's what causes teen pregnancies, that's what causes abortions to be necessary. If you really care about these children, you'll recognise the realities of the world we live in and make sure these children have the knowledge htat they need.

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  11. Phronk,

    there isnt anything wrong with masterbation as long as you clean up your own mess.

    I suggest using a soft knit sock or else you will end up squirting yourself in the face and maybe knocking an eye out or something.

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  12. Phronk -
    >>"First, you left out the most important part of the position in your question - the point is that they are encouraging kids to screw around SAFELY and do drugs SAFELY."<<

    This kind of flawed logic is just plain stupid. Not only are these "experts" contributing to the delinquency of minors by encouraging them to do illegal substances or engage in behavior that causes deadly diseases, they are encouraging irresponsible and immoral behavior without acknowledging the consequenses.

    Why don't we just teach kids to play with loaded guns SAFELY? Or drink and drive SAFELY? Hey, they're probably going to do it anyway, so why not? While were at it, let's just give kids clean needles so that can shoot heroin in their veins SAFELY.

    >>"Second, these people are educated scientists who, presumably, are experts in this area. They base their reasoning on actually looking at kids and seeing whether their lives are improved or not."<<

    These "educated scientists" are experts at being liberal morons. If you listened to the panel, these "experts" sounded like a bunch of intoxicated fools, giggling and horsing around with glee like they just saw their first porno, all while they are getting cheers from the reprobates in the audience.

    >>"let's say this approach leads to less unwanted pregnancy, less harmful drug use, less STDs, less behavioural problems, better school performance, happier kids, etc etc. Would you still think it's wrong? Just because you happen to have adopted the arbitrary rules of the Bible?"<<

    Yes those things would still be wrong, and not just because I have adopted the "arbitrary rules" of the Bible, but because those types of behavior have long term negative psychological, emotional, and physical side effects.

    >>"What the hell is wrong with masturbation? You mention the quote encouraging masturbation as if it's a horrible thing to say. I doubt that not even you can deny that."<<

    I not going to comment because I don't have a conviction one way or the other. I was simply quoting the "experts" and I just don't think it's their place to be giving sexual instructions to children.

    >>"A) Everyone masturbates"<<

    You don't know that.

    >>"Your husband masturbates."<<

    You don't know that. Remember, he has a wife and doesn't need to gratify himself.

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  13. I agree with you cjm.

    Dani, I'm not trying to be combative with you, we just have different views on ALOT of things. I'm trying to give you a different perspective on things because you tend to lump everybody into two categories: 1. those who think like you and 2. fools.

    Alot of times I can see what you are trying to say, I just don't care for how you present it...and then there is stuff that you say that is way too off the mark for me.

    If you don't want to send your kids to public school because you don't want them exposed to a secular world view, then I can respect that. I just don't see the harm in public education because I turned out just fine.

    I am not big on homeschooling, but I do see the importance of a good Christian school. But again, I would probably only send my child there for Grades 1-6 and then they can choose where they want to go after that because I want my child to think for himself--I want his faith to be genuine and a personal choice.

    But kids who go to public schools and the parents who send them there are not "fools". I don't think sitting in English, Chemistry, or Math is going to get them all hot and horny to go out and have sex unless they have some crazy fetish.

    You are fortunate enough to get to stay home with your children and teach them...alot of children don't have that priviledge. So what do we do? Not send them to school???

    I said I never got involved in the "bad stuff" in high school, but I would not say that I was not curious--they had Cosmo in the school library. lol It's human nature to be curious. And two teenagers out on a date are liable to get into trouble. That's reality. It's been happening since the beginning of time. Sheesh, people got married REALLY young 50 years ago because they "got into trouble".

    I think I've said this before, that I think it is important that church and state be separated because, I would not want my child exposed to some "Christian's" views.

    For example, if you were a teacher in a public school, I would not want your philosophies taught to my children, so by keeping it separate, my child is not influenced either way. Your views are a tad radical and whatever, that's what makes you you. (On a side note, I find it interesting that those Christians that were saved from what alot of us would consider an extremely "sinful life", seem to go completely radical in their views. Perhaps it's a safety net to help keep them in line? Dunno...anyways...)

    Like I said, I went to public school all my life, there was not much influence of secular world views. I just remember learning how to read, write, and most importantly, think for myself.

    It wasn't public school that made me question my faith throught the years, it was quite often the church and people in it. And that's sad.

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  14. Keeping it light for a minute, I have to say,

    LOL @ Dani... You don't know that. Remember, he has a wife and doesn't need to gratify himself. That was funny.

    However, with you and I both pregnant, I think it gets pretty tough in the last few weeks....LOL

    But...who knows...ahahahahaha

    The only thing I do know, is that I'm getting in all my computer time now before this kid makes his appearance in a few days...lol.

    You'll probably be glad that I'll be gone...ahahaha.

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  15. Sandalina -
    Glad you got a laugh out of it. I still have 6 months to go, but this is my fourth child so I know what to expect and how to get creative. ;>

    I will miss your comments, but you have a great adventure ahead of you full of joy, love and excitement. Each stage is so much fun. My blessings to you.

    I just want you to strongly consider the gravity of your stance on public school. You may have turned out just fine, but the schools are different/worse than they were 15-20 years ago when you attended.

    You may think that the public schools are religiously neutral, but they are by law secular and humanistic in their instructions, which is a religion itself meaning omitting God. Christian parents who seek to educate their children in the government school system allow their children to be instructed according to the creed of another religion, not Christianity!
    *See also => Pagan Religions Taught In Public Schools

    Jesus said in Luke 11:23, “He who is not with Me is against Me.” Neutrality is impossible with the Lord. Either we are going His direction, or we are not. We either teach our to children love, honor and obey God, or we send them to a place to be educated where God is irrelevant. The enemy is Satan, and he reigns in the government schools.

    The very teaching or mentioning of God at school is prohibited and often times punishable by government officials. The public school is a place that mocks God and persistently omits Him from all aspects of life. To send your children to an environment that is not only hostile towards God, but rejects Him all together, is absolutely foolish, risky and clearly against the Lord.

    God is clear in His Word that parents are to “Train up a child the way he should go...” (Prov. 22:6), not train them up in the ways of the world or place them in the hands of God-hating strangers to do the job.

    Please at least pray about it. You have nearly five years before you make your decision.

    Take care!

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  16. Dani:

    they are encouraging irresponsible and immoral behavior without acknowledging the consequenses

    I think it's pretty much the opposite of that. The behavior is encouraged by human nature and society and will happen no matter what. Unlike unrealistic abstinence only programs, these people are some of the ONLY ones acknowledging the consequences.

    Nice of you to call my logic stupid, but it seems to me that you're the one who is completely missing the point.

    Why don't we just teach kids to play with loaded guns SAFELY?

    If a kid is already playing with a loaded gun, it's better to teach them to keep it pointed away from people than to say nothing at all.

    Or drink and drive SAFELY?

    If a buddy is about to drink and drive, better to get him to take a nap for a few hours first than to remain silent and look the other way.

    Hey, they're probably going to do it anyway, so why not?

    Agreed. If something is already happening, best to do what's been shown to reduce damage than to do nothing.

    While were at it, let's just give kids clean needles so that can shoot heroin in their veins SAFELY.

    Sure, good idea...if we've tried everything else and they're going to be doing heroin no matter what, would we rather it be with dirty needles or clean ones?

    This exact idea has been attempted with (adult) drug users around here, and I presume elsewhere, and I believe it's been quite successful.

    These "educated scientists" are experts at being liberal morons.

    Really? Can you link me to this entry on their CV?

    Yes those things would still be wrong, and not just because I have adopted the "arbitrary rules" of the Bible, but because those types of behavior have long term negative psychological, emotional, and physical side effects.

    No, see, the hypothetical situation said that the behavior is happening no matter what, and the side effects of a program encouraging safe behaviour were all positive. That was the whole point. You're just twisting the question so you don't really have to answer it.

    I not going to comment because I don't have a conviction one way or the other.

    Why not? Because The Bible doesn't directly mention masturbation? But it's another sexual behaviour that people perform in the privacy of their homes, sorta like straight or homosexual sex, which you have all sorts of opinions on. Weird how there is this arbitrary exception simply because God didn't mention it.

    >>"A) Everyone masturbates"<<

    You don't know that.


    I know that most surveys find that the vast vast majority of men (99% or so) do, and a smaller majority of women.

    >>"Your husband masturbates."<<

    You don't know that. Remember, he has a wife and doesn't need to gratify himself.


    I don't KNOW that, and yeah, it's none of my business, but I really doubt that.

    The thing is, of kids indocrinated into believing that sex is bad, lust is bad, touching yourself is bad, etc...99% of them are going to feel bad for doing something that, um, "comes" naturally to them.

    Now THERE are your harmful long-term psychological, emotional, and physical effects.

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  17. I was gonna say something, but Phronk just went and said it all. Good show, mate.

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  18. Thanks Uber.

    And as usual, a detailed comment directly addressing Dani goes ignored.

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  19. UGH! Just read about this, this morning.ABSOLUTE TRASH!

    I can give A few Good Reasons Why Abstinence is Preferred....Just Look at tv...All the Drug commercials for STDs....HERPES the Gift that Keeps On Giving.......

    My youngun (She is 12) and I had a Conversation about AIDS this weekend and how you get it...That has opened the door for more discussion.

    She recently had sex ed in school... They taught her PUBERTY.. The Rest is MY job. I even had to sign an opt in/out form, just for a film on your changing body, not even sex........That is the Difference between Private and Public Foooooool systems.

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  20. Phronk – The main reason I ignored your comment is because when you make blanket statements like you do about kids having sex and doing drugs SAFELY, it just proves that we are worlds a part in our thinking that it’s not even worth trying to have you see it from a different perspective. But since you feel ignored I’ll explain where I’m coming from anyway.

    See, I love my children and I teach them that they are valuable human beings who didn’t evolve from slime. I also take my role as a parent along with my faith very seriously. I have high standards for my children and I think it’s irresponsible and borderline abusive as a parent to let children behave like delinquent animals who have no control over their urges or emotions. I take responsibility for raising my own children and instilling good morals and values into them so they don’t feel the need to degrade their bodies and be treated like a piece of meat for half the school to sample before they decide to settle down. I don’t relinquish my rights as a mother by handing my kids over to a godless humanistic bureaucratic daycare center where they will be indoctrinated for 8 hours a day with garbage like this.

    No, I prefer to do my own indoctrinating by teaching my girls that they are worth waiting for and they don’t need to lower their standards, experiment with sexual perversion or mind altering drugs just because every other degenerate fool at public school is doing it. While you may have low standards for yourself or your future children, I happen to believe my kids aren’t going to “do it anyway” because they will be trained with the fear and admonition of the Lord and taught respect and self-control by to honoring God in their lives. I realize that this is a foreign concept to you so far fetched that you will probably never understand, but I am not going to change my morals to fit with the filth of society or conform my mind to that of a reprobate just because everyone’s doing it.

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  21. That's all well and good Dani, but we're not talking about YOUR kids here. Everyone thinks their kids are special and will end up perfect. Fine, sure, yeah, they'll do that. But it is obvious that ON AVERAGE most kids will be having sex. So that kid down the street? There's a good chance he'll be having sex soon. Now do you think that, for him, it's better that his deluded parents ignore sex education and let him fumble his way into the bedroom, completely unaware of disease and pregnancy, or that he knows what a condom is, and knows of the importance of using one IF he ends up having sex?

    No, not your kids, of course not, you're a perfect Christian parent with perfect little children who wouldn't dare think for themselves. But you know, for all those other brutes who are human instead of perfect.

    And couldn't a parent teach all the things you just mentioned, AND teach them how people have sex safely? They're not mutually exclusive.

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  22. I never said I was a perfect parent, just that I have high standards for my kids unlike most other parents. An overwhelming number of homeschooling Christian families don't have kids who are rebellious or do drugs, or engage in early sexual behavior - check the statistics. But it is obvious that ON AVERAGE most kids will be having sex because most kids go to public school, most kids hate God, and most kids have lazy parents who don't give a rip about what their kids do because parents have conformed to the mob mentality of "they're going to do it anyway" so it's easy to wash their hands of any responsibility while big daddy government schools will take care of everything for them.

    Further, it's not my responsibility to raise other people's kids. If other parents want to enroll their children into the latest street walking class so they can grow up to be crack head whores, then that’s their business. Hey, as long as they learn to smoke crack and sell their body for sex SAFELY, who cares about anything else, right?

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  23. >>"And couldn't a parent teach all the things you just mentioned, AND teach them how people have sex safely?"<<

    The ONLY real "safe" sex is to be reserved for sex within marriage. Everything else poses great risks.

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  24. OK, so for these God-hating lazy-parent-spawned public-schooled kids, would it be better to teach, or even encourage, them to engage in these activities safely, IF it's shown to reduce their harmful effects (and I'm personally not convinced that it would)?

    Because yeah, of course only Christian parents have high standards for their kids, so this doesn't apply to them.

    The ONLY real "safe" sex is to be reserved for sex within marriage. Everything else poses great risks.

    So a long-term monogamous relationship suddenly becomes "safe" when marriage papers get signed?

    Yes, sex has risks, but many of them can be greatly reduced or eliminated by doing it safely. And what risks remain will still remain equally possible in a marriage as in an unmarried relationship.

    And would these clueless kids bother with an STD test before getting married and having sex for the first time? Would they even know what an STD is?

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  25. >>"OK, so for these God-hating lazy-parent-spawned public-schooled kids, would it be better to teach, or even encourage, them to engage in these activities safely, IF it's shown to reduce their harmful effects."<<

    Yes - I guess so, since they're going to do it anyway.

    >>"So a long-term monogamous relationship suddenly becomes "safe" when marriage papers get signed?"<<

    Assuming that the couple never breaks up or has had previous partners, I suppose technically it would be "safe" - but I come from a standpoint that sex before marriage is immoral and unless a couple is sanctioned by God, spiritually speaking it is still unsafe.

    >>"And would these clueless kids bother with an STD test before getting married and having sex for the first time? Would they even know what an STD is?"<<

    What would be the point of testing for a sexually transmitted disease if they have never had sex before? You can't get STD's from hugging you know. Yes they would know what STD's are which would be one of the reasons to discourage sex before marriage.

    BTW - that comment about my dad - no worries - he's a dead beat anyway. I just wanted to catch you off guard.

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  26. Yes - I guess so, since they're going to do it anyway.

    Well I'm glad we can come to some agreement!

    But yeah, like I said, only if it actually helps. I sorta doubt that actively encouraging kids to have sex would be better than simply educating them and discouraging it. But who knows.

    Assuming that the couple never breaks up or has had previous partners, I suppose technically it would be "safe" - but I come from a standpoint that sex before marriage is immoral and unless a couple is sanctioned by God, spiritually speaking it is still unsafe.

    OK, well again, I'm glad we agree on the practical aspects. So your disapproval of people like Deb must be purely on spiritual grounds, since she is monogamous. That's fine..not my belief...but fine, at least you're not making up harmful physical effects that are unlikely to exist.

    What would be the point of testing for a sexually transmitted disease if they have never had sex before? You can't get STD's from hugging you know. Yes they would know what STD's are which would be one of the reasons to discourage sex before marriage.

    Well you've demonstrated why it's important to learn about sex and STDs in school. You most certainly CAN get STDs without having sex. And just because your kid is honest about never having had sex, it doesn't mean her future husband and sex partner is too. Although less likely than if they were not virgins, it's still possible that either could have an STD. Sex has risks no matter what the circumstances.

    It's good that you wouldn't keep them in the dark, though, and I agree that education about STDs is a good deterrant to unsafe sex.

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  27. Yes - I'm glad we can come to some agreement too, Phronk.

    It's not like I'm ignorant on the subject, sure I have strong religious convictions now as to why I believe these things are wrong, but I also know from personal experience how harmful and destructive sex and drugs can be. Maybe you already know this, but I was 12 years old when I started engaging in sexual behavior and smoking pot because everyone else was doing it. I even learned all about how to have “safe” sex and do drugs “safely” at school, but it only encouraged my behavior. Then over the years it gradually progressed to harder drugs (acid, ecstasy, ect.) and more perverted, promiscuous sexual encounters (orgies, lesbianism, ect.). Not only did I have a baby when I was 15 and contracted an STD early on (thankfully which was curable), but I also had a very low self image after feeling used and like a piece of trash after every experience. Sure, I was more than willing to participate at the time, and most the time it was fun, but it didn't take long for the reality to sink in that I felt emptier than before and more worthless than ever. It wasn't until I was 19 that I finally met my husband and broke the sexual cycle, but to this day I still have over 7 years worth of baggage that I will never fully recover from. For this reason, I speak out against kids having sex before marriage. You don't have to be a Christian to know that it is destructive.

    Every wonder what happened to kids just having fun in the neighborhood, playing sports, building forts, going dirt bike riding, joining martial arts or going fishing with their dads? Since when did having sex and doing drugs become the only recreational habits among today's youth? I guess that it's just so sad to me that these kids lose their innocence so quickly and are thrust into the adult life full of stress and worry by the encouragement of the experts who are supposed to be protecting them. This is another reason why we choose to homeschool our kids.

    >>"So your disapproval of people like Deb must be purely on spiritual grounds, since she is monogamous."<<

    Yes - for the most part. As I have said before, if she didn't proclaim to be Christian, I would never have any beef with her, but the fact that she adheres to a belief system which clearly condemns her relationship and then she twists Scripture to fit her life - THAT's what I have a problem with. It would be along the same lines as Maxime saying that she still wants to have sex with her boyfriend and live with him because they're "committed" and God never condemns committed relationships. No - that would still be wrong and she knows it! If Deb would become a “Neurotic Pagan Lesbian” - I wouldn’t care at all! But when she mocks God and glorifies sin and perversion, I get extremely offended and have an obligation to stand up for what is right and defend my beliefs.

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