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TRUTH:
"Have No Fellowship With the Unfruitful Works of Darkness, But Rather EXPOSE Them!" ~ GOD, Ephesians 5:11

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June 09, 2006

Hypocritical Love & Abhorring Evil

(The following is part of what I wrote for Deb, the "Neurotic Christian Lesbian" last week as a guest blogger. Just in case you haven't already read it, I wanted to post it here as well. As of now, I am washing my hands of this issue and I am letting the Lord convict Deb's heart in His timing.)

"Let Love Be Without Hypocrisy…" – Romans 12:9

First let me say that I know I have not gained much popularity over the past several weeks based upon previous comments towards me, and I am fully prepared for a massive feeding frenzy of "Dani-hatred," insults and accusations in response to my views in this post. I have prayerfully put much time and consideration into what I should write and all I ask is that everyone read this with an open-mind, and with the same "love" and "tolerance" that each one of you claims to live by.

I am not here as the “gay x-tian” liberals who will tickle your ears with a warm and fuzzy “feel good” message. I have a heart for people like Deb – I really do! Ever since she left me that comment back in March which started this whole charade, God has been pressing upon my heart to reach out to her. But there comes a point in time when I should stop throwing my pearls to swine.

As Jesus said in Matthew 7:6 - "Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine."

That was right after He said, "Judge not...you hypocrite." - Hmmm, imagine that? Jesus calling someone a dog, swine or a hypocrite sure seems judgmental, so why would Jesus say that to begin with if we are not to judge?

If you don't believe in God or value what He says in the Bible, this post will sound like nothing but foolishness to you. Predictably, when I write about a controversial topic like homosexuality all the opposing comments are hostile, vindictive, nasty, vulgar, as well as extremely intolerant and hateful towards me or anyone else who shares my views. So if you are a homosexual, heathen or a hypocrite, don't bother leaving a comment if you cannot be civil!

Moving right along...

I must emphasize here that I believe with all my heart that the Bible is the infallible Word of God, and everything in it is Holy, True and Divinely inspired. It is the foundation of the Christian faith and we must strive to completely understand it, without compromise, so that we may live a life pleasing to God, and bring honor and glory to the Body of Christ.

Christians are OBLIGATED to challenge ideals and worldviews which are opposed to Scripture. Many of you have accused me of being "hateful" and "judgmental" for quoting the Bible and simply speaking the Truth. I realize there have been times when I do come across as harsh and offensive, and there are times when harshness is appropriate, but if you really knew the intentions of my heart, you would know that my motivation is purely love.

The Bible calls for a balance between what some people think are two opposing reactions—rebuke and compassion. Really, the two are essential elements of true Biblical Love.

Homosexual advocates have been remarkably effective in selling their warped interpretations of Scripture which address homosexuality. We live in an age of "rational" thought, scientific knowledge, survival of the fittest, secular government, humanistic education and cultural diversity. Over the years we have blurred the line between right and wrong, redefined Truth, and perverted the true meaning of Love. The homosexual community, as well as the church have utterly deceived people like Deb into believing, confessing, tolerating, and promoting a false gospel of “love.” Homosexuals, and shamefully many so-called "Christians" have digested an interpretation of truth that is not only warped and wicked, but also completely irrational.

Up until about fifty-years ago here in the United States, homosexuality was not only considered a sin, it was a crime. In fact, the previous 5,000 years or so of world history, sodomy was a crime punishable by death. Even in the recent past, the crime of sodomy was defined as the abominable and detestable crime against nature, and it was a felony in every state. It just so happens that the Bible also defines homosexuality as an abominable and detestable crime against nature.

Today, while governments such as Canada's and the US. State of Massachusetts have legalized sexual perversion, most of the church, to it's shame, either embraces homosexuality or stands idly by in fear of losing revenue. Throughout history, God’s standards have NOT changed because His Law is Righteous, True and Everlasting! *Read this => Homosexuality is a Perversion!

Followers of Christ, must NOT compromise on what the Bible says about sin, especially the abomination of homosexuality! No matter how one interprets the Bible, it is abundantly clear throughout Scripture that homosexuals stand in defiant rebellion against nature and the will of their Creator, who from the beginning, “made them male and female.” (Genesis 1:27)

Jesus' two greatest commandments are to love God with all your heart and soul and mind, and to love your neighbor as yourself (Matt. 22:37-40). Since love has been reduced to a mere feeling which is gained and lost on as much as whim, men no longer love God or their neighbors as Jesus Christ commanded them to do.

“This is love, that we walk according to His commandments.” - 2 John 1:6

Although salvation is obtained by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, the fruit of that salvation can be seen in the lives of those who walk in obedience to God's commandments. Christians are called to put their faith into action by loving God and living their lives according to His will. You cannot be "Walking In Love" while boasting in your sin. Shall we continue to justify our sin so that grace may abound? - Certainly not! (Romans 6:1)

"Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us." - 1 John 3:24

It is completely clear throughout the Bible that homosexuality is not an area where God's followers are free to live by their own feelings of right and wrong. The principles in Scripture which are to guide our lives are set out in no uncertain terms. Sexual immorality of any kind is wrong and destructive, and God undoubtedly forbids it.

While we are all sinners, perfect obedience must be our constant goal. We should not glorify our perversion to the world under the false premise of love, nor deceive those around us into thinking it's okay to compromise on God's commands. Any desire that becomes too important in our lives and causes us to compromise the Truth will ultimately cause us to lose sight of God's goodness, mercy and love.

“Then Jesus said to His disciples, If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me.” - Matthew 16:24

Jesus had no patience for half-hearted and hypocritical followers. He was totally and passionately committed to fulfilling His earthly mission, and He expected the same of His followers. Obviously, we can never fully live up to Christ's example, but we can do our best to live out our faith in every hour of every day.

Commitment to carrying out God's plan may be inconvenient, uncomfortable, and it may conflict with your own personal feelings and desires. However, Christians should not continue to fulfill the lusts of the flesh just because they think God would want them to be happy. Believers are commanded to walk in the Spirit, and when we do, the peace of mind, purposefulness of life and eternal rewards will be immeasurably great. Most importantly, when we truly walk in the Spirit and deny our flesh, we are giving a True testimony for Jesus Christ, our Lord and Savior.

"I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law." - Galatians 5:16-18

God does not put restrictions on our lives to be cruel or to deny us pleasure. Just like a loving father guides his children in the right direction and sets limits for them so they do not hurt themselves, God sets boundaries for our own good because He loves us and knows what's best for us. In the same way a child desires to please his earthly father, we also should seek to obey God, our Heavenly Father, in all we do because we love Him.

“For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you should abstain from sexual immorality that each of you should know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, not in passion of lust, like the Gentiles who do not know God...For God did not call us to uncleanness, but in holiness. Therefore he who rejects this does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit.” - 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8

Deb rejects the very teachings of God while condemning me for quoting Scripture, but her lust still separates her from God's holiness!

The greatest commandment is to love the Lord our God. Jesus’ second command is to love your neighbor as yourself. But what does "loving" your neighbor really mean? Doesn’t real love require us to confront our neighbor if we saw that they were sinning, hurting themselves, and blaspheming the name of the LORD?

“Open rebuke is better than love carefully concealed. Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.” - Proverbs 27:5-6

While everyone is accusing me of being "hateful" and "judgmental" towards Deb for being a "Christian" lesbian, I am the only one who loves her enough to tell her the Truth.

Here is a scenario I gave on another post of mine: Deb is recklessly speeding down a curvy mountain road and all of her friends are cheering her on saying, "Way to go, Deb - Faster! We love you...No need to slow down, just do what makes you happy." Meanwhile, I’m waving my hands shouting out, "Deb - slam on the breaks! There is a cliff ahead! If you don't stop, you’re going to die!" But, her so-called friends keep telling tell her, "Just ignore Dani! She's just a judgmental bigot. If you want to drive off a cliff - Go right ahead! Do what feels good because we love you, and no one can judge you!" What kind of "loving" friend encourages the other to continue driving down a road towards death?

“A friend loves at all times.” – Proverbs 17:17

I am not here to be "Holier Than Thou" or a sarcastic know-it-all. But as a real friend, I am here to tell the Truth of God’s Word in love, hopefully to drive Deb towards repentance instead of off a cliff to her death. If we see those around us living in disobedience towards God, is it really "loving" to let them continue on living in sin and rebellion? Can we really love others the way God wants us to without passing judgment on them?

In Romans 12:9, the Apostle Paul says this - "Let Love be Without Hypocrisy. Abhor What is Evil; Cling to What is Good."

How can we abhor evil if we cannot even make a judgment about it? We can't - It’s impossible! Homosexual acts, along with the spiritual and cultural agenda which promotes it, are the epitome of evil. Sexual immorality is clearly in violation of God’s Law and those who participate in it are evil. Homosexuals are not only sexual deviants, as are fornicators and adulterers; but they also have gone a step further in their wickedness and exchanged the natural use into that which is against nature, and exchanged the truth of God for a lie. (Romans 1:18-32)

Deb once said in a previous comment of hers, “there is a huge difference between God knowing your heart---and having evil intentions.” Is that so, Deb? The Bible says in Proverbs 23:7, “For as a man thinks in his heart, so is he.” Continuing to live as a lesbian makes Deb evil and abominable in God’s eyes. But if she truly wants to live for God like she claims, she must change her heart, turn from her evil ways and pray that God will help her overcome her sin and weaknesses.

"In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God." - Romans 8:26-27

When I come across a woman like Deb who fiercely defends her lifestyle and openly mocks God by identifying herself as a “Neurotic Christian Lesbian,” I have an obligation to tell her the Truth about her sinful ways because I love her, have compassion for her and don't want to see her destroy her life while taking countless others down to the pit of hell with her. More than that, I love the Lord Jesus Christ, and I am called to stand up for Truth and Righteousness which includes rebuking people like Deb and being hated for it.

“Love does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices in the truth.” - 1 Corinthians 13:6

God is Love. God is also Holy, Just and Righteous, and He “hates all who do iniquity (Psalm 5:5). God does not merely send sins to hell, He sends people to hell! Our hearts must be pure and our eyes always need to be toward the One who is Love, otherwise we could fall away from God forever. Once we have a good conscious, we will learn to love as the Savior loves, in TRUTH and WITHOUT HYPOCRISY!

“Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith.” - 1 Timothy 1:5

In Christ ~ Dani

==================================

Deb's response to me...

“The most important thing is---that you feel you're telling the truth. That's all. Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks except for what you feel to be true in your heart. Go with that...Just as I do.”

See the thing is Deb, we all have different “feelings” of what we think to be true. You are in grave danger with this kind of mindset. I am not here to share my feelings with you, I am here to share the TRUTH with you. It saddens me to know how much the homosexual secular culture has warped your thinking to the point where God’s Word is no longer the Ultimate Standard for your life. Now the Bible is reduced to a measly suggestion for your life, but only if it fits with your "feelings."

Ask yourself this: What motivation do I have in sharing the Truth with you? Have I won a popularity contests or made a good name for myself here? No, obviously not! My only motivation is that you would be freed from your bondage so the Lord can truly work through your life. Doing the right thing is not easy, nor will it win you favor with the world. But Christians are not called to take the easy road in life, for we know it leads only to death.

Jesus said in Matthew 7:13-14 – "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”

God does NOT want some half-hearted, luke-warm, hypocritical followers. And personally, I don’t want to be friends with those who are boast in their sin and are prideful, phony believers in Christ.

I’ll say this to you again - Take up your cross, deny yourself, enter through the narrow gate and follow Jesus Christ completely. If you don’t, you should denounce Him as the Savior of your life altogether until you are ready to REPENT!

Jesus came to die for your sins and free you from being a slave to your lusts. But the bottom line is - You cannot free a slave who is in love with his chains...and you obviously love your chains.

~ Farewell to you, Deb!

88 comments:

  1. Thanks for visiting my blog.
    There’s more information about my life at http://tinyurl.com/qeavt
    Best wishes
    WS

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  2. Dani..."...As of now, I am washing my hands of this issue and I am letting the Lord convict Deb's heart in His timing...."

    Hell, darlin'..ya might az well let the Lord do it on his OWN time instead of waitin' fer yer APPROVAL or PERMISSION..The Stevo 'majinz HE KNOWZ da deal..and what makes ya think
    S/HE's even INDICTED her..?
    ...The Stevo duzzn't even think he's ACCUSIN' either uvya of doin' ANYTHING wrong but jus tryin' dabestya can to deal with all HE'Z puttin' onya..
    The mere fact that both ofya share dialogue about yer differences iz all S/HE's aksin'...It's about understanding and bein' tolerant...and NOBODY can do that without communication..
    Whether you believe it or not..Your's and ~Debs dialogue has opened THOUGHT for everyone...neither one ofya have to be "Right" or "Wrong"....Give God your permission to decide THAT issue...You and ~Deb did exactly what yer s'posed tado..and that is to make an honest attempt to come to an understanding..I'm thinkin' both ofya did BETTER thanya think ya did...Kudos ta bothaya and drop by "The Jammy" inyer down time...There's alotta heathern's (Heathen's?) hang there........Jus' sayin'..

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  3. So you guys arn't friends anymore, what happened?

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  4. Bob, you are totally out of it. Check Deb's blog. Lots of drama.

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  5. How can you justify the condemnation of Deb's "sin" and follow the example of Bob Enyart? Is it just that you simply choose to interpret the Bible literally in Deb's case and Bob gets a pass for continually sinning. It seems that you pick and choose your sins to spew hatred about. The post I did pointed out several things about your preacher, along with other people questioning the same things in your blog and Deb's, which you have refused to answer. Why is that?

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  6. And a farewell to you too, Dani. I don’t have chains and I don’t live in ‘lust’… Do you call living with the same partner for 12 yrs lust? No. You just base it by gender.

    I’m sorry that you have to live with all the chains. Chains of guilt, shame and resentment from your past and some from your current situation.

    When we discussed how great it would be that we would be friends despite our differences as Christians, I said, “Wow! She really is a great person with an open-mind and a heart for others.” No matter what my sexual orientation is, it shouldn’t matter. Do you feel that it would make you go back into your old ways? Do you feel that you would backslide?

    The bottom line is, I’m not a slave Dani. I’m free. I’m free to be ‘me’; to live a life full of love with my partner, and full of love having a close relationship with God. No one can tell me that I don’t have a relationship with God, because I speak to Him every single day.

    So we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be accepted by God because of our faith in Christ---and not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be saved by obeying the law. ~Galatians 2:16

    You can do all the ‘good deeds’ in your life and be a ‘good little Christian’ and go to church like clockwork every single Sunday morning…but that’s not going to get you a ticket into heaven. Having a personal relationship with God is going to get you there. By being compassionate and warm towards others (God’s children) you will definitely see positive results. This is what God wants you to do. He doesn’t want you taking over the job He does---which is judging.

    So put away all falsehood and “tell your neighbor the truth” because we belong to each other. And “don’t sin by letting anger gain control over you.” Don’t let the sun go down while you are still angry, for anger gives a mighty foothold to the Devil. ~Ephesians 4:25-27

    Being angry leads into short-tempered responses.

    A hothead starts fights; a cool-tempered person tries to stop them. ~Proverbs 15:18

    I’m trying to be civil with you Dani. I even tried to reach out to you and become your friend. You deceived me and basically insulted me with harsh words on my blog. That’s okay though—because you probably got angry at people who were not on your side, or people who didn’t share the same faith in Christ. I understand that. But you took it out on me---your ‘friend’.

    A gentle answer turns away wrath, but harsh words stir up anger. ~Proverbs 15:1

    Your belief is “yours” and nobody can take that from you. The minute you start lashing out in anger, people stop listening. They do. Even people who you were almost going to persuade into thinking along the same lines. Anger is ugly. A bad temper is a total turn off when someone is preaching the good word or speaking words of God.

    People with good sense restrain their anger; they earn esteem by overlooking wrongs. ~Proverbs 19:11

    You never overlook wrongs. You never overlook a single sin, do you? Is it stressful being you? I feel bad. You’re putting way too much pressure on yourself by trying to ‘fix’ everyone around you.

    Try focusing on you…and God. Start there. Start by reading some of these great words in the bible. They have helped me a great deal.

    I wish you the best Dani. And a farewell to you too!

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  7. It's not too late to see the lightl.It is time to put to rest the mistakes and assumptions that lie behind a phrase used by some religious people when talking of those who are plain-spoken about their disbelief in any religious claims: the phrase "fundamentalist atheist". What would a non-fundamentalist atheist be? Would he be someone who believed only somewhat that there are no supernatural entities in the universe - perhaps that there is only part of a god (a divine foot, say, or buttock)? Or that gods exist only some of the time - say, Wednesdays and Saturdays? (That would not be so strange: for many unthinking quasi-theists, a god exists only on Sundays.) Or might it be that a non-fundamentalist atheist is one who does not mind that other people hold profoundly false and primitive beliefs about the universe, on the basis of which they have spent centuries mass-murdering other people who do not hold exactly the same false and primitive beliefs as themselves - and still do?

    Christians, among other things, mean by "fundamentalist atheists" those who would deny people the comforts of faith (the old and lonely especially) and the companionship of a benign invisible protector in the dark night of the soul - and who (allegedly) fail to see the staggering beauty in art prompted by the inspirations of belief. Yet, in its bleeding-heart modern form, Christianity is a recent and highly modified version of what, for most of its history, has been an often violent and always oppressive ideology - think Crusades, torture, burnings at the stake, the enslavement of women to constantly repeated childbirth and undivorceable husbands, the warping of human sexuality, the use of fear (of hell's torments) as an instrument of control, and the horrific results of calumny against Judaism. Nowadays, by contrast, Christianity specialises in soft-focus mood music; its threats of hell, its demand for poverty and chastity, its doctrine that only the few will be saved and the many damned, have been shed, replaced by strummed guitars and saccharine smiles. It has reinvented itself so often, and with such breathtaking hypocrisy, in the interests of retaining its hold on the gullible, that a medieval monk who woke today, like Woody Allen's Sleeper, would not be able to recognise the faith that bears the same name as his own.

    For example: vast Nigerian congregations are told that believing will ensure a high income - indeed they are told by Reverend X that they will be luckier and richer if they join his congregation than if they join that of Reverend Y. What happened to the eye of the needle? Oh well, granted: that tiny loophole was closed long ago. What then of "my kingdom is not of this world"? What of the blessedness of poverty and humility? The Church of England officially abolished Hell by an Act of Synod in the 1920s and St Paul's strictures on the place of women in church (which was that they are to sit at the back in silence, with heads covered) are now so far ignored that there are now women vicars, and there will soon be women bishops.

    One does not have to venture as far as Nigeria to see the hypocrisies of reinvention at work. Rome will do, where the latest eternal verity to be abandoned is the doctrine of limbo - the place where the souls of unbaptised babies go. Meanwhile, some cardinals are floating the idea that condoms are acceptable, within marital relationships only of course, in countries with high incidences of HIV infection. This latter, which to anyone but an observant Catholic is not merely a plain piece of common sense but a humanitarian imperative, is an amazing development in its context. Sensible Catholics have for generations been ignoring the views on contraception held by reactionary old men in the Vatican, but alas, since it is the business of all religious doctrines to keep their votaries in a state of intellectual infancy (how else do they keep absurdities seeming credible?), insufficient numbers of Catholics have been able to be sensible. Look at Ireland until very recent times for an example of the misery Catholicism inflicts when it can.

    "Intellectual infancy": the phrase reminds one that religions survive mainly because they brainwash the young. Three-quarters of Church of England schools are primary schools; all the faiths currently jostling for our tax money to run their "faith-based" schools know that if they do not proselytise intellectually defenceless three and four-year-olds, their grip will eventually loosen. Inculcating the various competing - competing, note - falsehoods of the major faiths into small children is a form of child abuse, and a scandal. Let us challenge religion to leave children alone until they are adults, whereupon they can be presented with the essentials of religion for mature consideration. For example: tell an averagely intelligent adult hitherto free of religious brainwashing that somewhere, invisibly, there is a being somewhat like us, with desires, interests, purposes, memories, and emotions of anger, love, vengefulness and jealousy, yet with the negation of such other of our failings as mortality, weakness, corporeality, visibility, limited knowledge and insight; and that this god magically impregnates a mortal woman, who then gives birth to a special being who performs various prodigious feats before departing for heaven. Take your pick of which version of this story to tell: let a King of Heaven impregnate - let's see - Danae or Io or Leda or the Virgin Mary (etc, etc) and let there be resulting heaven-destined progeny (Heracles, Castor and Pollux, Jesus, etc, etc) - or any of the other forms of exactly such tales in Babylonian, Egyptian and other mythologies - then ask which of them he wishes to believe. One can guarantee that such a person would say: none of them.

    So, in order not to be a "fundamentalist" atheist, which of the absurdities connoted in the foregoing should an atheist temporise over? Should a "moderate atheist" be one who does not mind how many hundreds of millions of people have been deeply harmed by religion throughout history? Should he or she be one who chuckles indulgently at the antipathy of Sunni for Shia, Christian for Jew, Muslim for Hindu, and all of them for anyone who does not think the universe is controlled by invisible powers? Is an acceptable (to the faithful) atheist one who thinks it is reasonable for people to believe that the gods suspend the laws of nature occasionally in answer to personal prayers, or that to save someone's soul from further sin (especially the sin of heresy) it is in his own interests to be murdered?

    As it happens, no atheist should call himself or herself one. The term already sells a pass to theists, because it invites debate on their ground. A more appropriate term is "naturalist", denoting one who takes it that the universe is a natural realm, governed by nature's laws. This properly implies that there is nothing supernatural in the universe - no fairies or goblins, angels, demons, gods or goddesses. Such might as well call themselves "a-fairyists" or "a-goblinists" as "atheists"; it would be every bit as meaningful or meaningless to do so. (Most people, though, forget that belief in fairies was widespread until the beginning of the 20th century; the church fought a long hard battle against this competitor superstition, and won, largely because - you guessed it - of the infant and primary church schools founded in the second half of the nineteenth century.)

    By the same token, therefore, people with theistic beliefs should be called supernaturalists, and it can be left to them to attempt to refute the findings of physics, chemistry and the biological sciences in an effort to justify their alternative claim that the universe was created, and is run, by supernatural beings. Supernaturalists are fond of claiming that some irreligious people turn to prayer when in mortal danger, but naturalists can reply that supernaturalists typically repose great faith in science when they find themselves in (say) a hospital or an aeroplane - and with far greater frequency. But of course, as votaries of the view that everything is consistent with their beliefs - even apparent refutations of them - supernaturalists can claim that science itself is a gift of god, and thus justify doing so. But they should then remember Popper: "A theory that explains everything explains nothing."

    In conclusion, it is worth pointing out an allied and characteristic bit of jesuitry employed by folk of faith. This is their attempt to describe naturalism (atheism) as itself a "religion". But, by definition, a religion is something centred upon belief in the existence of supernatural agencies or entities in the universe; and not merely in their existence, but in their interest in human beings on this planet; and not merely their interest, but their particularly detailed interest in what humans wear, what they eat, when they eat it, what they read or see, what they treat as clean and unclean, who they have sex with and how and when; and so for a multitude of other things, like making women invisible beneath enveloping clothing, or strapping little boxes to their foreheads, or iterating formulae by rote five times a day, and so endlessly forth; with threats of punishment for getting any of it wrong.

    But naturalism (atheism) by definition does not premise such belief. Any view of the world that does not premise the existence of something supernatural is a philosophy, or a theory, or at worst an ideology. If it is either of the two first, at its best it proportions what it accepts to the evidence for accepting it, knows what would refute it, and stands ready to revise itself in the light of new evidence. This is the essence of science. It comes as no surprise that no wars have been fought, pogroms carried out, or burnings conducted at the stake, over rival theories in biology or astrophysics.

    And one can grant that the word "fundamental" does after all apply to this: in the phrase "fundamentally sensible".

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  8. ^ Where is Jason when we need him?

    Dude, since you mentioned the Crusades, what do you think about the Communist/Marxist governments who have murdered millions of their own citizens?

    It's not about religion. It's about being so obsessed with an ideology (religious or not) that one feels justified in using it to act out one's desire to obtain, power, control and dominion over others.

    There is a difference between people with strong ethical and religious convictions and ideological zealots who are not coming from a place of love, compassion or Godliness. The latter are Pharisees, megalomaniacs, ruthless dictators hiding behind 'pure Islam', communist leaders who plaster their picture everywhere and ruthlessly destroy attempts to worship other Gods and so on and so on.

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  9. Can I order a martini straight up in here? Dani? Where'e the bartender???

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  10. And umm...extra olives please.




    Enjoy your weekend!!! :)

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  11. I can be civil... although I could not disagree more. Your beliefs (and they are beliefs, not facts)deserve as much respect as anyone else's, and I will not attack them. What seems out of whack though, is the ARROGANCE of it all. To claim that you have found the only "key" to ultimate truth is a respectable leap of faith, but it's arrogant as hell to try to push your beliefs on to other people or "fix" people. Admittedly, I know very little about your war on queers, but this brand of "Christian Obligation" seems more bossy and arrogant than devout. I noticed a link by a "former homosexual" on your sidebar... do you REALLY believe that?? Do you think it's a character flaw? Do you think it's something people should just give up... like cigarettes? That strikes me as ridiculously naive. I think your head is in the sand on this one.

    You can pretty much persecute and/or justify any behavior if you pick the right bible quotes. So acting as if you have found the only path is offensive. The possibilities for interpretation are endless.

    I think it's wonderful that you haev found a path that works for you and helps you feel fulfilled and in-tune with god as you understand him. But I think you're swimming in dangerous waters by pushing your beliefs onto others... and no amount of scripture quoting makes that an okay thing to do.

    It is not okay to judge others. That's just my two cents.

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  12. Ok, yes I'm here. I tried to read all the stuff above, but some of it was too long and full of yucky scripture garbage. Sorry Richard.

    So, I am now a radical fundamentalist atheist and I want my non-God, peace be upon him, to forgive you infidels for being such homophobic monsters. It's time I get drunker and maybe go to a bathhouse (yes, it's in the East) and get sucked off.

    Love and kisses,
    Jason
    (but at a friend's house)

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  13. The bible was written by imperfect human beings years and years ago and then translated from the original language many times and in many ways. Logically, much of the original meaning and intention of the bible has changed over such a long period or rewritings. It's like broken telephone. Also, a lot of the rules are written based on governments or conditions of the time so long ago and in our modern world don't make much sense anymore. You seem to know a lot about the bible, so I am sure you know this. Human beings might have written it in such a way as to reflect their own biases or to promote their own agendas. Certain texts have been left out or included arbitrarily. Who decided exactly what was to consist of 'the bible'? It wasn't God, it was people. The bible is clearly not the exact word of God, He didn't write it with His own hand, it has been reinterpreted countless times, and it hasn't been preserved over the very long time ago when it was written.

    I'm sure God appreciates your devotion to reading the scriptures and trying to interpret and understand His word and carry out his wishes to a T, but the bible probably isn't the most accurate place to receive that information. I think that's why some Christians, and rationally so, take the bible as a guide. It's impossible to read the bible as an exact law, but God is love and He's in our hearts and thus we can look to the love inside of us for guidance. The bible is unfortunately flawed for finding exact interpretations of what God wants us to do.

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  14. As I said... blah blah blah...

    OMG... the bible and Christianity is soooo boring....


    If you find something more succinct and interesting, I listen. Until then, shhhhhhhhh.

    Jason.

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  15. Actually, that 'Bible is mistranslated' statement isn't really true. Dead Sea Scrolls proved that wrong.

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  16. Jason-
    I think what you said is what the essence of sin really is. Sin I think is to be indifferent toward God and the things that really matter, to be indifferent toward heaven and hell. To have no desire for that which is infinitely to be desired...GOD.

    So I pray that God by His grace would open your eyes to what is truly delightful. Not tv, sex, or drugs but the infinite all satisfying God.

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  17. "As always Rachel" said:

    "Your beliefs (and they are beliefs, not facts)deserve as much respect as anyone else's, and I will not attack them. What seems out of whack though, is the ARROGANCE of it all. To claim that you have found the only "key" to ultimate truth is a respectable leap of faith, but it's arrogant as hell to try to push your beliefs on to other people or "fix" people."

    Yet again we have another example in the above statement of the total bankruptcy of relativistic pluralism. All views are valid, I dont judge....your view is intolerant. all in one sentance. Good night. I'm sorry but what you said is so self defeating and philosophically asnine I'm not even going to begin to disect it.

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  18. "Richard Dawkins"?
    He's not really someone worth admiring.

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  21. As always, Rachael-

    John 14:6 "Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me".

    There is nothing man can do aside from believing in Jesus that will save him.

    The Lord is the true God (Jeremiah 10:10) and His law is truth (Psalm 119:142).

    Matthew 7:13-14 "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life and only a few find it.

    Matthew 7:21-23 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you, Away from me, you evildoers!'

    Sarah-

    Disciples, followers of Jesus, had their hand in writing it. These were men who loved the Lord with all their hearts and would lay down their lives for Him. The Bible was God breathed "inspired". These men were driven and compelled by the Holy Spirit to provide us a guide so that we may come to know the Lord, love Him, and serve Him with all that we are.

    Even through generations, different hands, languages, translations, His message has remained true. The Bible has not lost meaning or clarity; it is as sharp as ever. Since it was meant by God for us and God is never changing- He is the same yesterday, today and forever (Hebrews 13:8) - so is His Infallible Word.

    It is within our society and our corrupt minds that have led many to believe its okay to just 'feel good' and do as you please. Many developed the mind set of - 'Live as you wish, there's only one lifetime' when that is a misconception. There is life after death and it happens to be more important than this one. What IS true is that there is only this one lifetime in which to get it right! Ashes to ashes, dust to dust... life is but a fleeting moment that passes away quickly (James 4:14) , eternity is forever (John 3:36; John 6:47).

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  22. Apostolic Bunny Lover: The mistranslation does work because most of the time it is in reference to the New Testament.

    The Dead Sea scrolls were of the Old Testament and were in a language that was still used for that book by the Jews, whereas the New Testament was changed many times through the differing translations and the changes to the modern dialect.

    The other funny thing about the Dead Sea scrolls is that they contain a good amount of text that is NOT in the bible. There are whole books that were removed by religious leaders and councils at one point or another for whatever political or cultural reason.

    The best of them in my opinion is the book of Enoch.

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  23. I sayeth unto thee... I must study for mine exam.

    Later.

    ps. I was flipping through the channels on my tv and saw a "preacher" heal this "big-boned" african-american lady of her blindness and her limp. It was a miracle.

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  24. Greetings everyone - I have been away for the weekend, but I'm glad to see things are still going on without me. What a great discussion we have here - thanks to all of you for your comments.

    ==================

    Mike - you asked, "How can you justify the condemnation of Deb's "sin" and follow the example of Bob Enyart?"

    Because Bob Enyart is NOT a homosexual for one, nor does he promote tolerance of sexual immorality!

    For further clarification about my pastor, Bob Enyart: I have no need to defend this man because he is a great man with reputable character, he teaches the truth in God’s word without compromise and he is a man worthy to be praised.

    It is ignorant of you to make claims about someone who you don't even know, nor took the time to actually find out if this information is even accurate.

    His past is public record and many of his "sins" were committed nearly 20 years ago, plus he wasn’t a pastor at the time. Since then he has publicly REPENTED and given his testimony for Christ. He continues to be active in the culture war and warn people not to commit the same sins because it essentially destroyed his life at one point. He even did a few shows on live TV titled “Why God Forbids Sexual Immorality” and you can buy a copy of it on DVD with Bob’s testimony.

    I think it great what he did with OJ Simpson’s stuff by buying it then burning it on the steps of the Los Angeles County courthouse. OJ is a murderer who got off free and clear because we have a corrupt system which proves that pro-athletes and famous public figures can get away with murder – literally. Bob publicly demonstrated that we should not support an unjust system that lets a murderer get away with his crime.

    I agree with Bob's theology about the criminal code and roles of women because it aligns with the Bible. Cults are defined as a religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false - contrary to the Bible. He is not a child abuser either - Sheesh! He gave his son a spanking which he deserved for being disobedient. As you know, corporal punishment is also one the radical beliefs in the Bible and I agree with that as well. Bob has seven boys who are all happy, intelligent, well-adjusted and he has raised them up very well. But you wouldn't know that, would you?

    If you or anyone else really has a beef with Bob Enyart – Why don’t you take it up with him personally? I’m sure he would be delighted to answers any of your questions or concerns. You can email him at this website or listen to his radio shows where you can also call in a talk to him => KGOV.com - Just tell him that crazy chick Dani sent you. (He knows me as Danielle)

    ==================

    Actually Sarah, the Bible was only translated once: OT-Hebrew & NT-Greek to English. You are spouting off the same old tired rhetoric of the classic unbelieving skeptic and frankly you are embarrassing yourself with your claims of knowledge. Please study for yourself before you come here pronouncing that you know what the Bible says, because you don't know what you're talking about.

    ==================

    Rachael - Thanks for your two cents. You ended your comment by saying - “It is not okay to judge others.”

    But then your ENTIRE comment is completely judgmental of me and my views, calling me bossy and arrogant, ridiculously naïve, and so on. Watch out for the hypocrisy in your own statements!

    You also said – “So acting as if you have found the only path is offensive.”

    Well good, it should be! The TRUTH is offensive, haven't ya heard?

    As Jesus said, "Blessed is he who is NOT offended because of Me." - Matthew 11:6

    Jesus made extraordinarily arrogant claims about Himself. Either Jesus was a delusional schizophrenic, or He was indeed who He claimed to be - God.

    Jesus said - "I AM the Way, the Truth, and the Life!" - John 14:6

    If Jesus isn't God, then how do you explain all of His "I AM" statements throughout the Gospels? No other religious figure in history have ever made such outrageous claims about themselves to be God. Muhammad, Buddha or any other religious leaders have only claimed to be prophets or good teachers, never God Himself. (Well - atheists think they are God, but that's another topic.)

    Jesus also made these arrogant claims about Himself...

    "I AM the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." - John 8:12

    "I AM One who bears witness of Myself, and the Father who sent Me bears witness of Me.” - John 8:18

    "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I AM He, you will die in your sins.” - John 8:24

    “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” - John 8:58

    "I AM the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?" - John 11:25-26

    "I AM the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing." - John 15:5

    If Jesus is NOT any of these things, then He would be an absolute lunatic in need of mental care. But if Jesus is who He says He is...isn't it worth your time to find out if it's true?

    You can read a detailed description about Jesus here =>THE BOOK of JOHN

    Good question though, I think I'll post this now...

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  25. Deb - Nice verses, but what does that have to do with you continuing to live in sin? Yes I get angry and frustrated when people justify their perversion while supposedly "walking in love" - and righteously so! God gets angry too and He hates the fact that you are living as a homosexual.

    Sure, you are extremely kind, loving, outgoing, thoughtful, talented and sweet, no doubt about it. But all those "good" qualities about you are flushed down the toilet when you openly and pridefully live in direct rebellion of your Creator God as a lesbian.

    Your sexual orientation DOES matter! If we are to accept and promote your "sexual sin" as part of God's Kingdom, then we must accept and promote ALL sexual sins. This includes: adultery, fornication, sodomy, pedophilia, prostitution, bestiality, rape, ect. - We sure don't want to be accused of being "hateful" or "intolerant" towards other sexual preferences and orientations, so now anything goes because God's Word is relative! Whatever "feels" good to you, then do it because no one can judge you, right? Where do we draw the line? One compromise leads to another and before you know it, Christians are hardly recognizable from the world.

    Would you really be okay with me as a Christian if I continued to commit adultery on my husband and then brag about it to the world? I sure hope not! God says that we should not even associate with Christians who openly sin like that.

    I Corinthians 5:9-11 “I wrote to you not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.”

    I do overlook wrongs - plenty of them. But how can I overlook a specific sin like homosexuality that you are not repentant of? It would be one thing Deb, if you at least had an ounce of repentance in your heart, then I could be "friends" and help you through your journey - But the direct defiance in your life is characteristic of only the unrighteous and I don't want to be friends with artificial believers who mock God by openly living a sexually immoral life.

    As I have said time and time again, that if it weren't for *THIS* issue I would be your best friend in the world. I can live with some gossip, a little white lie, temper problems or perhaps a dirty mouth - Lord knows I'm not perfect! But, the hypocrisy in your walk and the with the Lord is so extreme that I cannot associate with you even on a "friendly" level. If you were a complete pagan, then no problem - I have plenty of pagan friends and that kind of behavior is totally expected of them, but you profess to be a Christian and you have a higher standard for your life - God's standard! You are smearing Christ's name throught the mud by promoting a "tolerance" of your lifestyle.

    But nonetheless, I cannot convict your heart and I already know that you are unwilling to change. But remember that God cannot bless you while you are living in sin and you will reap what you sow!

    Galatians 6:7-8 "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life."

    All in due time I suppose! I'll be here waiting for you as a friend when you are ready to REPENT!

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  26. "Well - atheists think they are God, but that's another topic."

    Huh?

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  27. Oh, and did you even bother to read what 'Richard Dawkins' wrote. He made some excellent points, but wasn't harping continually on homosexuality, so I guess it is not that interesting to you. The latter seems to be your obsession for some reason?

    By the way, I don't think I am a god in any way, means, manner or form :) Heh.

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  28. Saying atheists think they're God is like saying vegetarians think they're cows. Except even more nonsensical.

    Oh, and I wanted to stay out of this one, but I gotta respond to Bob. I find it hilarious that you attempt to have this philosophical aura about you, yet you refuse to actually present or address valid arguments. Either stick with illogical fundamentalist religious bible-quoting and ranting, or use your brain and actually discuss it philosophically. You can't have it both ways.

    (example: "what you said is so self defeating and philosophically asnine I'm not even going to begin to disect it." ... if it's so self-defeating, you should be able to point out the flaw in a line or two. Too hard for ya? Also, spell-check would raise your credibility)

    And do you even know who Richard Dawkins is? Not worth admiring? What the hell is wrong with you?

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  29. Phronk, your avatar looks like you're screaming and ranting, kind of like Rush Limbaugh.

    I have real bunny droppings I can send you if you want to do another photo shoot :)

    I saw that you are a psych major. Do you want to be a therapist or something?

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  30. Happy Monday!

    Don't forget to find some time to hate today.

    Later.

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  31. Happy Monday everybunny. Have a blessed day!

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  32. How come no one quoted these?

    Romans 1:26 (New International Version)
    New International Version (NIV)

    26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones.

    or this?

    Leviticus 18:22 (New International Version)


    22 " 'Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.

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  33. Jef - Thanks for stopping by. This has been an ongoing debate for over a month now and all the main verses in the Bible condemning homosexuality were ignored. You can read more about these debates here if you are interested => About homosexuality

    Personally, I try to stay away from the verses in Leviticus because people are ignorant of the context and try to justify perversion by relating it to eating shellfish, wearing clothing of mixed fabrics, touching a woman on her menstrual cycle, ect. I try to stick to NT verses, but either way homosexual advocates still try to justify it.

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  34. Call me old-fashioned, but I don't want to touch you when you're menstruating. Now I'm off to have some clam strips. Later.

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  35. I'm new to this rampant discussion, and I know it's a few days old, but I have to throw in.

    Does the bible not say "let him without sin, cast the first stone"? And since YOU have said we are all sinners, aren't you, a sinner, casting stones towards others?

    It just seems to me, that by finger pointing at others at how wrong they are to live their lives the way they are, you are completely contradicting what you say you believe. Which is why so many have a problem with your approach. We are all sinners. ALL of us. You, the preacher you love so much, me, the President. ALL of us.

    Since you love to say that God will judge, I will say, yes, He will. ALL of us. Those with any type of hate in their hearts, whether they profess to believe or not, will be the ones that won't make it to Heaven, for knowingly sinning, when you know the truth, is worse than sinning when you don't. And to not be loving and accepting towards someone, and reject them because of their sin, is a sin in and of itself. Can you not see that?

    Preach the Gospel, Dani, preach it with all of your heart, but preach it correctly. Look to your own life first, correct the flaws you perceive that you have, become perfect and never sin again. THEN you can cast all those stones you've been casting. Until then, you are sinning more violently than the others you cast stones at, because you know what you are doing is sinnful.

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  36. Really Vixen?

    Aren't YOU casting stones at me right now?

    How am I completely contradicting what I say and believe?

    I don't love to say that God will judge, that's what everyone else loves to say.

    I say that Christians are called to JUDGE RIGHTLY as Jesus and the Apostle Paul repeatedly says throughout Scripture.

    I have looked at the sin in my own life first - and I have REPENTED of it, therefore I can see clearly to judge. I am not claiming to be perfect, but I certainly am not living a sexually immoral life while professing to be a Christian.

    Do you really think God will be loving and tolerant towards the unrepentant and accept all sinners into heaven? Or will God reject them because of their sin? God does not merely send sins to hell He sends people to hell.

    Would you really be accepting of me if I openly continued to commit adultery on my husband and encouraged other wives to do the same?

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  37. You know, the sad thing is I believe you truely intend to reach out to people and bring them to God. However, I believe your method could use some, finesse.

    Getting in people's faces just doesn't seem to have the same effect as leading by example through love. My mother in law is a minester and she would never treat people the way you have on this blog. It's apalling, it truely is.

    None of us is with out sin, that was the entire point of Jesus dying on the cross. So that we as sinners could be forgiven of our sins by calling upon him, admitting our sin and asking forgiveness. The bible also tells us that we will not gain entry to Gods kindom through good works alone. And Dani, unless you are completely with out sin (which you clearly are not) you should not be placing judgement upon others for that is the measure by which you will be judged.

    While I applaud your effort to reach out to the masses I must agree that your anger has the opposite effect.

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  38. I think, in knowing the truth, and seeing someone go live blatantly against it is where all the frustration and 'anger' comes in. Maybe this is something Dani should bring to The Lord and ask His help with but I do applaud her gumption. Many of us would have thrown in the towel long ago, no?

    Yes, it's true that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar but sometimes you try that and it doesn't work, then what - fly traps, swatters? I do believe that sometimes you have to be brutally honest just as parents might show strict disciple at times but it's only out of love they do so.

    Here is something that should be known about judgement:

    1 Corinthians 2:15 "The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment".

    Yes, Dani is blunt and to the point. And though sometimes it might not be the best approach, it's a good thing also.. because eternal salvation shouldn't be taken so lightly. It needs to be taken with a sense of urgency. After all, you never know when you'll take your last breath and by then, it could be too late. It is without question that Dani cares for Deb and where her final resting place will be. Dani has reached out to Deb's soul and that's all God asks of her. She knows only He can change her heart... but I'm sure she will be waiting in prayer and with faith for it (Daniel 12:12) all the while knowing as well, that it's not her will but The Lord's will that shall be done!

    Wait patiently wait,
    God never is late;
    Thy budding plans are in Thy Father's holding,
    And only wait His grand divine unfolding.
    Then wait, wait,
    Patiently wait.
    Trust, hopefully trust,
    That God will adjust
    Thy tangled life; and from its dark concealings,

    Will bring His will, in all its bright revealings.
    Then trust, trust,
    Hopefully trust.
    Rest, peacefully rest
    On thy Saviour's breast;
    Breathe in His ear thy sacred high ambition,
    And He will bring it forth in blest fruition.
    Then rest, rest,
    Peacefully rest! --Mercy A. Gladwin

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  39. I saw that you are a psych major. Do you want to be a therapist or something?

    No.

    Please send the bunny feces ASAP. Thanx.

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  40. Thanks Tressa, for your understanding and encouraging comments. It really means a lot to me to know that there are other likeminded believers out there who take the Word of God seriously. I have really enjoyed reading the dialog between you and Deb and I appreciate the fact that you take the time to help her see the light.

    The truth is that it really grieves my heart to see people like Deb openly living in sin without a shred of repentance in their heart. And yes, it makes me angry and sad that someone would take advantage of Christ's death by essentially saying - "Thanks Jesus, for dying on the cross for my sins and all...but my personal happiness with my partner is far more important than following you - Hey, we're all sinners so no biggie, right?"

    Such a mockery of God pains me to the deepest level of my soul and I cannot help but to be bold in telling the hard truth about sin and perversion. Sometimes it may not be the best way, but a nice and loving “feel good” message is not going to get the point across, and frankly, it’s just not my style. Don't get me wrong, I can be nice and loving, but the love I have is without hypocrisy and one that rejoices in the Truth! I do not love what is evil and wrong, therefore I cannot be accepting and tolerant of sin.

    I have been praying for Deb without ceasing and she is constantly on my mind. Part of me was disappointed that she didn't have some great revelation and immediately turn from her wickedness, but that was just my ego trying to share the glory that only God deserves. I will continue to pray for her and I will be waiting here as a friend, should she repent. But all of the hateful, spiteful and vindictive attacks towards me are beginning to wear me out and this debate is becoming a source of frustration that is enabling my ability to be productive because it is fueling my 'anger' even more. Whether or not my anger is righteous and justified doesn’t matter because the message I am trying to convey is falling on deaf ears and hardened hearts. Truth among this flock is like pearls among swine. It’s time to move along now…

    Thanks again for stopping by and being a light in the darkness for me and everyone else. You’re a sweetheart!

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  41. I want to throw some stones please.

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  42. The writer of this blog is quite the scariest individual I have come across in all my time blogging. She was definitely born in the wrong century.

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  43. I don't believe the century has anything to do with it honestly. If you believe the bible and believe in God, I'm pretty sure I didn't see an expiration date anywhere in the New or Old Testament. And don't give me that written by flawed men crap because again if you believe in God and believe that he is almighty do you honestly think he would allow his last will and testament to be tainted? If so then you have completely discounted any faith you profess to have in him.

    My issue is not necessarily with Dani's beliefs. I simply disagree with some of her methods.

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  44. Mockers are a dime a dozen. But they all seem to think they're brilliantly original.

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  45. bigot


    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bigot

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  46. You voted for Buch also, I will bet. Would you like to change our Constitution also???


    You are such a pathetic joke.

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  47. Who are you talking to? If you are one of the dime a dozen I was referring to you must be talking about me cause they love to use the "B" word.

    On a lighter note I totally love your blog background (ReasonstoHateMe). I so want to steal it but being a nice Christian I would never do that.

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  48. I only like to believe the good parts of the Bible and not the bad parts. The bad parts I like to call metaphors.

    Cause I want to hate gays over a nice shrimp cocktail. Anyone else?

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  49. For the record, Walking Contradiction...I DID NOT vote for Buch or Bush.

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  50. Yay, something I admire about u!

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  51. Yeah, but it's only 'cause Bush wasn't right-wing enough.

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  52. Deb's response to me...

    “The most important thing is---that you feel you're telling the truth. That's all. Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks except for what you feel to be true in your heart. Go with that...Just as I do.”

    Well, of course Deb is lying..God said in Romans 1 she knows the truth but is trying to suppress it.

    Deb, you do not love yourself or others. You are selfish to your own hurt and that of others. What true friend would give this kind of advice? What good, loving parent would give this kind of advice to their kids?: "If it feels good, do it" Every hateful Criminal in the world shares your philosophy Deb.

    Who do you think Nambla's philosophy is closer to, yours or Dani's? And the list goes on and on..Your world view is hate, not love. Why do you hate yourself and others Deb?..(I know why..)You can't make a wrong right Deb, no matter what you are telling your God conscious heart/mind... No matter how hard you try to convince yourself, it won't change the consequences of your wrongs.

    Deb if homosexuality is right, I'll cheer you on...If it's wrong, will you stop trying to justify it?

    Danny

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  53. Deb, you do not love yourself or others.

    I certainly do. In order to love other people, you have to love yourself first. I am surrounded by family and friends whom I love with all my heart. I have many loved ones that I treasure---you cannot make that statement. It’s ignorant to say the least.


    You are selfish to your own hurt and that of others.

    I’m selfish? I am the most giving person. If someone needs me, I’m there, if someone needs emotional support, I am there, if someone needs financial needs met, I am there. I volunteer and do a lot for my community. How dare you call me selfish just because I live with my partner of 12 yrs and I am monogamous with her. Are you jealous that we have such a wonderful and loving relationship? It shows that you’re insecure with your own sexuality to be so homophobic.

    What true friend would give this kind of advice?

    A friend that tells the TRUTH.


    What good, loving parent would give this kind of advice to their kids?: "If it feels good, do it" Every hateful Criminal in the world shares your philosophy Deb.

    Parents who are accepting, loving who have “unconditional love” and who aren’t judgmental. If it feels good to marry your husband, should you do it? Of course. I am not a criminal, nor did I ever hurt anyone.

    Who do you think Nambla's philosophy is closer to, yours or Dani's?

    You don’t have many friends, do you? I see that you limit yourself to those of “your kind” only. Everyone has a different belief, value and opinion. You can’t change people—only God can. I have a personal relationship with God. He tells me that I’m accepted…NOT you. Who are you to judge? List the crosses you have to bear. NO ON FALLS SHORT! Remember that.

    Deb, and the list goes on and on..Your world view is hate, not love. Why do you hate yourself and others Deb?

    I don’t hate. In fact, I love everyone. I don’t judge people---as you do. Why are you so angry with me? Do you not like yourself? Do you not have self respect as I do? It seems to me that your anger stems from limited sense of love for yourself. Maybe you should evaluate how you love others…do you have respect for anyone as well as yourself?



    (I know why..)You can't make a wrong right Deb, no matter what you are telling your God conscious heart/mind... No matter how hard you try to convince yourself, it won't change the consequences of your wrongs.

    It’s not wrong. Sorry. You have no proof it is wrong. God has spoken to me in many ways and I am convinced that my life is right with God. Is yours? Focus on yourself before judging others my friend.

    All the best to you—and I hope you are happy with your life—cause I am very happy with mine!

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  54. Danny wrote previously to Deb in email...(I cut this email some for the sake of space) Deb has my full response and can add whatever she likes.)

    Deb, can you answer these questions and then if you like, you can cut and paste from your private email to me to elaborate, so we can keep this all in one place?

    A yes or a no with elaboration and or clarification ,if needed, would be nice and I'll reciprocate.

    Deb, I am happy to comment on the gay web-page, point by point, but I need to first re-ask my initial questions. They are foundational questions. Also, I don't want to get into a your web-page vs my web-page discussion. If you want to quote from others and make your point, feel free.

    I realize you are trying to find justification for your position from that homosexual site and are saying that God loves homosexuals.
    You and I both agree that God is love. We will disagree with regards to what that means and how He dispenses it.

    I'm only asking the following question (again) as a hypothetical at the moment, so please if you could just answer it as a hypothetical, then we can move on.

    IF...<--(only if) Homosexuality is right, I have no issues fostering it and cheering you on..in my love..for you..

    IF..<--(only if) Homosexuality is wrong, do you agree it would be unloving of you and me to try and justify it as good.

    Deb, what is the foundation of your world view? (What does right/wrong revolve around for you as a "Christian"?)


    =================

    Deb's forum response to me with my rebuttal.

    Deb, you do not love yourself or others.

    "I certainly do. In order to love other people, you have to love yourself first. I am surrounded by family and friends whom I love with all my heart. I have many loved ones that I treasure---you cannot make that statement. It’s ignorant to say the least."

    Yeah, I love my family to, that's why I'm not a homosexual.

    "I’m selfish? I am the most giving person. If someone needs me, I’m there, if someone needs emotional support, I am there, if someone needs financial needs met, I am there. I volunteer and do a lot for my community. How dare you call me selfish just because I live with my partner of 12 yrs and I am monogamous with her. Are you jealous that we have such a wonderful and loving relationship? It shows that you’re insecure with your own sexuality to be so homophobic."

    First, I didn't say you were incapable of doing good.
    Secondly, your world view means there will be more people who need emotional support.

    You are advocating tearing down the boundaries that discourage people from being born gay, which leads to a messed up life.
    Being "faithful" is not in and of itself good or selfless. It depends on what you are faithful to.

    You would agree that even Hitler probably did some good and was kind to his family at times..
    You would agree also that child molesters have probably done some kind things, even while they were molesting kids and burying them in their back yards.

    If homosexuality is wrong, would you then agree that your faithfulness to it's practice is unloving?

    Once you answer this Deb, I'll reaffirm to you biblically what God has already revealed to you: Homosexuality is wrong, in opposition to God, unloving, unhealthy, ungodly, self destructive and leads to misery and early death. Whereas a healthy *loving* marriage between a man and a women leads to life and bypasses the consequences of perverse sexual behaviors.

    If a loving marriage between men and women is God's way for us, with Him at the center, then we should see that it is emotionally safe, physically healthy and leads to life.

    If homosexuality is God's loving way for us, with Him at the center, we should see..Him declaring it, fostering it, and we should see that it produces, the same positives that a loving marriage produces, right Deb?


    "Are you jealous that we have such a wonderful and loving relationship"

    You don't. It's a facade. It would be unloving and sick of me to be jealous of homosexuals. A loving homosexual relationship is oxymoronic.

    You admit that things can feel right on some level yet be wrong, right? And..If you say child molestation is wrong, does that mean you are jealous of the molester?


    "It shows that you’re insecure with your own sexuality to be so homophobic."

    Yes I am homophobic and out of the closet, but it "Feels" true to me, so..I'm sure you don't mind.
    Really, what difference could it make in your world view what I am, you love me anyways and only God can change me.

    What true friend would give this kind of advice? "If it feels true it is"..


    "A friend that tells the TRUTH."

    What truth? That regardless of what you feel, it's good and true?
    Tell that to the person who wants to beat up homosexuals for entertainment purposes because it "feels right to him".

    You are no ones true friend if you are telling them "If it feels good do it". "Right and Wrong is a matter of one's feelings"
    You are their enemy. Deb.

    What good, loving parent would give this kind of advice to their kids?: "If it feels good, do it" Every hateful Criminal in the world shares your philosophy Deb.


    "Parents who are accepting, loving who have “unconditional love” and who aren’t judgmental. If it feels good to marry your husband, should you do it? Of course. I am not a criminal, nor did I ever hurt anyone."

    Then those parents have achieved something God has failed to achieve: Love without judgment, discipline and boundaries.
    You are selfish Deb and willfully ignorant: "Hey son, go beat up some homosexuals, I love you unconditionally!"..Your world view undermines the very love you say you have for your gay lover..
    Your definition of love is hate Deb. You don't mind judging, that's clear to me as this whole email is a judgment against me and the view that homosexuality is wrong.

    Your world view exposes the truth that you already know..The fact that you would not judge anyone for any type of sexual sins is because you have a guilty conscience with regards to your homosexuality. It hits to close to home. It's like judging yourself. However, you have no problem judging those who do judge such behaviors as wrong and in your efforts you make people feel comfortable in their sins and win their approval.

    If..homosexuality is emotionally and physically destructive, in opposition to God and he set up boundaries to discourage it for that reason.. then you are clearly, unjustifiably harming others..If it's not wrong and in opposition to God, then I am unjustifiably harming others. I can easily concede in this *hypothetical* can you?


    "If it feels good to marry your husband, should you do it? Of course"

    It doesn't feel good to me to marry my husband, since I'm a dude..It did feel good to me to marry my wife, because she is a homophobic Christian Conservative and I was not led by my feelings apart from God's word that I saw in her. Also, the concept of marriage between man and woman is *right* to begin with. Unlike you, I don't have to search scripture to feel good about heterosexuality and the concept of marriage between a man and a women. It can feel good for some people to marry based on ungodly motives and feelings, which leads to failed, abusive marriages and broken children.

    Really Deb, you shouldn't need this, "If it feels good it's fine" nonsense, if God's word backs up the things you want to do. It's telling that you even appeal to such a weak foundation..
    Who do you think Nambla's philosophy is closer to, yours or Dani's?


    "You don’t have many friends, do you? Everyone has a different belief, value and opinion
    I see that you limit yourself to those of “your kind” only.
    You can’t change people—only God can."

    Nice dodge.
    I'll ask again, in a different way. Who's phylosophy is more in tune with God's word..."If it feels true in your heart it is true" or, "Homosexuality is an abomination to God" "Men and women burn in lust towards one another, because they have decided it's not worth while to retain God in their knowledge" Which is true Deb, your heart that says homosexuality is not wrong, or God's words here?

    No...I don't have any unrepentant child molester friends, do you? (They don't like me for some reason..) No I don't have any friends who will encourage or accept it if I held to your philosophies or sexual behaviors.
    Thank God..If any tried to be that kind of friend to me I would count them a selfish enemy, trying to seduce me into their wrongs, for selfish reasons.


    "I see that you limit yourself to those of “your kind” only."

    You mean human beings who believe in absolute right and wrong, based on the Bible rightly divided and who appose homosexuality and nambla?
    But I also speak with people like you, a lot. In fact, maybe more often then my "own kind".


    "Everyone has a different belief, value and opinion."

    Yes, God is aware of man's tendencies to create his own truths to justify their opposition to Him.

    Jdg 17:6 - In those days there was no king in Israel, but every man did that which was right in his own eyes.

    Pro 1:31 - Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.

    Everyone knows there is a God who wrote fundamental morality on their hearts, they just suppress it with their "Alternative" views, reap and then blame God.

    "You can’t change people—only God can."

    So why are you trying to change my mind? Why are you here?
    And how does God change people Deb? Does he do it through your philosophy of "Just do what feels right" ? I recall Jesus preaching something about "Repentance" and telling his followers to preach the same.

    Deb, have you ever in your life past these words on to an unbeliever you have such deep and profound love for?


    Joh 3:36 - He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

    I have a personal relationship with God. He tells me that I’m accepted…NOT you. Who are you to judge? List the crosses you have to bear. NO ONE FALLS SHORT! Remember that.

    Cool, you have a personal relationship with the God of the Judeo Christian Bible.. Then you agree that Homosexuality is wrong, right?

    Can you give me the verses where God's word says Homosexuality is okie dokie with him?

    I'm a bit confused, are you saying homosexuality is wrong, but all fall short sometimes? Because below you say it's not wrong.
    In what way do you fall short? And how to measure this falling short is a wrong you have done?

    Deb, and the list goes on and on..Your world view is hate, not love. Why do you hate yourself and others Deb?


    "I don’t hate. In fact, I love everyone. I don’t judge people---as you do."

    Not possible Deb. You can't love without judging rightly.
    But you can be hateful in not judging rightly.


    Lev 19:17 - Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

    How do we know if we are judging wrongly or rightly, feelings?, the way it effects the other person?..Shruggs, who knows..

    Will you agree if homosexuality is wrong, my judging it as a sin and rebuking my "brother" "neighbor" is loving?

    And that those who don't are being hateful?

    I agree 100%. You don't judge as I do. Here is the difference: You don't judge people who are actively involved in destructive behaviors and reaffirm the loving boundaries God set up, because you yourself are violating them.
    It would be like judging yourself. I do judge them, my love for them demands it.
    Deb, is there any ungodly, wrong behavior that would cause you to dis-fellowship with someone who calls themselves a believer?
    Other then mine ? :) If so, what is it and on what grounds/athority would you do so?


    "Why are you so angry with me?"

    Because my feelings are telling me it's the right thing to do? Why are you judging me and trying to change my mind?? Only God can do that Deb.

    We are angry with one another for different reasons Deb. I would point out your anger is unjustified and that mine is not. You are angry with me because I am apposed to homosexuality, which you are spreading in the name of Jesus Christ.


    "Do you not like yourself?"

    Yes, I like myself. I don't like when I do wrong, but I won't try to justify it and if others try to, they don't love me.

    "Do you not have self respect as I do?"

    lol..No, not as you do. Not at the expense of unjustly harming others.
    You don't have a healthy respect for anyone. If so, you would not be involved in this ungodly, unhealthy sexual activity.
    Don't confuse narcissism/selfishness and self-centeredness with love and self respect Deb.
    And being a "Giving" "Kind" person doesn't prove otherwise.
    It's a facade Deb.


    "It seems to me that your anger stems from limited sense of love for yourself. Maybe you should evaluate how you love others…do you have respect for anyone as well as yourself?"

    This is why you hate yourself Deb and others. " limited sense of love for others"

    It's not the love of God in us that causes us to support wrongs Deb. You are doing wrong and know it. This leads to a lack of self love and a cycle of self punishment which includes others. A lack of self love comes from doing wrong Deb. Whether it's you or someone else doing the wrong to you. Your "self love" you claim to have, in this case is narcissism and self-centeredness. I can easily concede that homosexuals can often do "nice" things. I'm saying homosexuality is not one of them. It's because of love, not a lack thereof that I appose homosexuality. Again, you should be able to concede that if homosexuality is wrong, it's not loving to agree with it.

    (I know why..)You can't make a wrong right Deb, no matter what you are telling your God conscious heart/mind... No matter how hard you try to convince yourself, it won't change the consequences of your wrongs.


    "It’s not wrong. Sorry. You have no proof it is wrong. God has spoken to me in many ways and I am convinced that my life is right with God. Is yours? Focus on yourself before judging others my friend."

    If it's not wrong, don't be sorry, you have nothing to be sorry over, those who say it is wrong should be sorry. Like..God..
    If it is wrong, would you concede you should not be trying to justify it? And if it is wrong, would you concede it can't be made right be desiring it to be?
    Can you just answer this simple question hypothetically?? Can you establish for me the criteria of a wrong? What is your measuring stick?


    "All the best to you—and I hope you are happy with your life—cause I am very happy with mine!"

    Nope, you are not happy Deb. It's a facade. Your "happiness" is not evidence that your homosexuality is right Deb. It's no more evidence then the smile on the kid's face who eats his fill of candy..only to later end up sick..In fact, it's a bad sign when you are happily doing wrong. hmm..is that even possible..?

    Danny

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  55. “First, I didn't say you were incapable of doing good.
    Secondly, your world view means there will be more people who need emotional support.”


    Everyone who is human needs emotional support. Do you think that only homosexuals have psychotherapy and go through numerous medications per day? Think about it, there are many, many people, straight and gay that have emotional problems. It’s ‘human’.

    “You are advocating tearing down the boundaries that discourage people from being born gay, which leads to a messed up life.”

    A messed up life? What about heterosexuals who dabble in crack, heroin and marijuana? Drugs mess up people’s lives, divorces messes up people’s lives as well as abusive husbands who messes up their wives’ lives. Think about it, how am I messing up anybody’s life by simply loving another human being? If it bothers someone else, then they have issues of their own to contend to.

    “Once you answer this Deb, I'll reaffirm to you biblically what God has already revealed to you: Homosexuality is wrong, in opposition to God, unloving, unhealthy, ungodly, self destructive and leads to misery and early death. Whereas a healthy *loving* marriage between a man and a women leads to life and bypasses the consequences of perverse sexual behaviors.”

    I disagree. I have a personal relationship with God as I have told you. It’s amazing when I sit, meditate and pray to Him, how He answers me. There are many spiritual encounters I have had with God, and His angels which I list in the book that I wrote which can be found on my site to purchase. He led me to write the book which led me into a higher realm of understanding and discernment for His love. An early death? So you base homosexuality with longevity? That’s very interesting. Both my partner and I have been in the same relationship for twelve years. We are HIV- and we both practice safe sex by being monogamous. We live a very beautiful life with many friends, and many family members. Our family members lifespan goes well into their nineties. Must be all that Italian and Latina blood! But who’s to say that God won’t take me today? No one knows their time of death.

    “A loving homosexual relationship is oxymoronic.”

    Hmm. I beg to differ. When my partner is sick, I take care of her, I make her soup, I tuck her in, I rub her back and I make sure she is comfortable. I would walk to the ends of the earth for her. Even if we weren’t able to have sex (which I admit—we go without for a while sometimes like normal couples) it doesn’t matter to me. Sex is just a bonus. We are just like a married couple. She does things for me, and I do things for her---because it’s a loving homosexual relationship. When you think “homosexual”----you automatically think “BAD WORD”. It’s not. There are different circumstances with certain groups that tend to give loving couples like my partner and I a bad name. I totally understand why you think that though. But we are no promiscuous at all. What we have is unconditional love---which means no conditions whatsoever in a loving relationship. I don’t find our relationship an oxymoron. I would do absolutely anything for this woman. She is my best friend, my lover, and most of all, my family now. She makes me laugh, makes me smile when I’m down, and accepts all my flaws and idiosyncrasies. I’m a lot to deal with---believe me! And she still stuck it out with me. (Not sure why!!!) heh

    “Yes I am homophobic and out of the closet, but it "Feels" true to me, so..I'm sure you don't mind.
    Really, what difference could it make in your world view what I am, you love me anyways and only God can change me.”


    No, I don’t mind that you’re a homophobic. It’s the same with agoraphobia or any other disorders. I totally respect that. I’m afraid of Christians who hate or are afraid of other human beings. This causes many feuds and hate crimes. People who say what you just said, usually end up hurting someone like me and my partner physically. God doesn’t approve of hate or judgment upon your fellow Christians. But, it’s your right to hate. God gave all of us a choice.

    “What truth? That regardless of what you feel, it's good and true?
    Tell that to the person who wants to beat up homosexuals for entertainment purposes because it "feels right to him. You are no ones true friend if you are telling them "If it feels good do it". "Right and Wrong is a matter of one's feelings"
    You are their enemy. Deb.”


    I see you’ve entertained the thought of hate crimes. Why don’t we focus on those who beat up people of different races. That’s scary in itself. What if someone decided to beat up a black man just because of his skin color? It happens every day. There are people who want to inflict harm on others. It’s the way the world works. Is it right? No. But I’m not beating anyone up for their beliefs. So I’m “okay” with me. I am no one’s enemy. That is your opinion, because you hate homosexuals. You would believe how many heterosexuals and homosexuals I am friends with. We are so fortunate to have a wide circle of friends and family. So I disagree with your mindset and how you conjured all this up.

    “You are selfish Deb and willfully ignorant: "Hey son, go beat up some homosexuals, I love you unconditionally!"..Your world view undermines the very love you say you have for your gay lover..
    Your definition of love is hate Deb. You don't mind judging, that's clear to me as this whole email is a judgment against me and the view that homosexuality is wrong.”


    No one who knows me personally would ever say that I’m selfish. I’m selfish because I have a beautiful relationship with my partner? How can you write, “Hey son go beat up some homosexuals, I love you unconditionally!” -----THAT’S a hate crime. Your views and beliefs are very ignorant which will lead you with hate in your heart---which in result causes a lack in longevity. My definition of love is written in the Corinthians:
    Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. Love does not demand its own way. Love is not irritable, and it keeps no record of when it has been wronged. It is never glad about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance. ~1 Corinthians 13:4-7
    And no, I don’t mind you judging, because that’s what you do. I don’t judge. We have many differences----and yet strong upon our faith and beliefs. That’s our right.

    “It doesn't feel good to me to marry my husband, since I'm a dude..It did feel good to me to marry my wife, because she is a homophobic Christian Conservative and I was not led by my feelings apart from God's word that I saw in her. Also, the concept of marriage between man and woman is *right* to begin with. Unlike you, I don't have to search scripture to feel good about heterosexuality and the concept of marriage between a man and a women. It can feel good for some people to marry based on ungodly motives and feelings, which leads to failed, abusive marriages and broken children.”

    Well that explains a lot. I didn’t know you were a man----slipped my mind. Or a “dude”. What leads to failed and abusive marriages and broken children are abusive parents OR parents who hate. Parents who teach their children that homosexuals are bad people---which leads them to go out there and beat ‘one of us’ up. That’s what leads a broken home. Our home isn’t broken. We are full of love, full of family and friends, and this will never change because we are very very happy. AND we have GOD in our lives!!! I love that!

    “I'll ask again, in a different way. Who's phylosophy is more in tune with God's word..."If it feels true in your heart it is true" or, "Homosexuality is an abomination to God" "Men and women burn in lust towards one another, because they have decided it's not worth while to retain God in their knowledge" Which is true Deb, your heart that says homosexuality is not wrong, or God's words here?”

    To “me”, you do not speak God’s words. Only GOD speaks His words to me. No human will tell me ‘what God said’, because God speaks to my heart. Promiscuity is an abomination to God, having orgies is an abomination to God, not loving another person of the same gender. Sorry-----but that’s how I feel.

    “Deb, have you ever in your life past these words on to an unbeliever you have such deep and profound love for?”

    Interesting you should say this. I have changed a non-believing atheist into believing Christ. I have told the way I believed to many people who didn’t believe, and now they have faith in God. Amazing, huh? But when people who are homophobes scare people away from believing in the “HATEFUL” God that you speak of----then you draw them away from God. Do you know how sad God is about that? VERY. If you discourage anybody from following God, that alone is an abomination.

    “Can you give me the verses where God's word says Homosexuality is okie dokie with him?”

    And can you give me the verses where “JESUS” says that homosexuality is wrong? And that two people of the same gender cannot love one another?

    “It's not the love of God in us that causes us to support wrongs Deb. You are doing wrong and know it. This leads to a lack of self love and a cycle of self punishment which includes others. A lack of self love comes from doing wrong Deb. Whether it's you or someone else doing the wrong to you. Your "self love" you claim to have, in this case is narcissism and self-centeredness. I can easily concede that homosexuals can often do "nice" things. I'm saying homosexuality is not one of them. It's because of love, not a lack thereof that I appose homosexuality. Again, you should be able to concede that if homosexuality is wrong, it's not loving to agree with it.”

    I’m not doing wrong—and you know it, or you wouldn’t be so bothered by it. I am not hurting you or others. I don’t have a lack of self love, … I take very good care of my health and body, physically and mentally – as well as my partner does too. I am not self-centered as you wish I would be. I am a giving person who provides emotional support to those who need it. I work with people who have a hard time coping with life, and have helped numerous people. I am in no way shape or form conceited. Being homosexual is none of anyone’s business except mine. And I know that God is accepting of my relationship----you can’t tell me otherwise. This argument is lacking any growth here, so this will be my last comment, as I have many many articles in my archives to support my faith.

    “Nope, you are not happy Deb. It's a facade. Your "happiness" is not evidence that your homosexuality is right Deb. It's no more evidence then the smile on the kid's face who eats his fill of candy..only to later end up sick..In fact, it's a bad sign when you are happily doing wrong. hmm..is that even possible..?”

    How can you tell me I’m not happy? (haha) This is humorous to me. I’m not doing wrong---I am doing what’s right. I am loving another beautiful woman who I have been with for twelve years. Our love is special and it’s the type of love that is unconditional. I have never been happier in my life. I was involved with a man for a short time before my partner, and he made me unhappy. I wasn’t in love with him nor did I want to do any loving things for him, because he was ‘just a friend’ in my eyes. We were supposed to be engaged, and I knew in my heart that it was the WRONG thing to do FOR ME. “FOR ME” I emphasize, … so what’s “right” for someone may not be “right” for somebody else. For instance, I believe that God has placed unique and different people for purposes of learning. It’s whether or not it’s right for you. Murdering/promiscuity/rape/ and hurting people intentionally is wrong. Loving another person? Naw. You can never persuade my mind that God doesn’t approve of me.

    But I want to thank you for taking the time out to comment back to me. I appreciate your concern. I am however, concerned with the numerous times you brought up hate crimes against homosexuals. Did you know that the KKK have this mindset? They’re Christians too. I hope that it doesn’t boil down to that level of hatred.

    Again, I wish you well. This is my last comment on this board, and I hope that you enjoy your life and that your life is fulfilling as you say it to be. I wish that for you. I wish you nothing but happiness, joy and laughter throughout your life. I hope you have unconditional love that lasts till your 110 yrs old! And I wish you longevity.

    God bless!

    ReplyDelete
  56. *Yeah though I walk thru the Valley.....* That is the Apprehension I feel on this subject.

    This argument is OLD, tiresome, and the words of the Bible passages have been twisted more times then a Hefty Bag.... But to sum up this whole argument.....
    For starters most of these people in the gay community when they spout out about love... it is the feel good syrupy love... there is however a tough love as well.....I get to the point of tough love when i see the same old words being spouted.... I want to walk away, ( and I have many times) shaking my head and just *NOT CASTING MY PEARLS*

    As jesus said in Luke-9:5 And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.

    I have. Many times over the years said to hell with it...... But every so often GOD throws me back into the fray ( onto the next town)....So I am in it again......

    I sent this in a private letter, But I feel it sums up why sometimes I feel as i do....

    If the movement wasn't on to recruit my Kids, if there wasn't these gatherings where people are parading out in public in nudity, and gyrating sex, if there own words did not convict them ( yes it is about sex, spoken by a glsen member in massachusettes at the height of fistgate! UGH!)
    If there wasnt such a movement on to tell me what to think and what to say and how to say it and how to raise my kids in our morally correct beliefs.... If I didnt have to see public displays of what I find OFFENSIVE, Repulsive and morally incorrect,

    ( Oh wait as a CHRISTIAN I am NOT allowed to be OFFENDED!!!!)

    Then maybe I would NOT have to Say anything on the subject........
    THE POINT IS.......... It has brought out of the closet and into my livingroom and I dont want it there........... On my TV, Radio, my Newspaper, in my Schools, and now even in our churches! I AM OFFENDED BY IT! Everyone can sue because they are OFFENDED.... I AM OFFENDED -- I CAN'T AFFORD AN ATTORNEY!
    But I will say it louder everyday I am OFFENDED by all this!


    The gay community says it doesn't want this fight but they opened this pandoras box.

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  57. Thanks KC!

    Very, very interesting!

    I am not going to touch this one with a ten foot pole...Been there, done with that!

    Besides, Danny is doing a great job blasting Deb with the TRUTH, no need for me to step in!

    A few questions for Deb though -

    If you are so happy and in love with your partner, then why have you made passes toward me, and engaged in dirty sex talk with other women? I thought you were in a monogamous relationship?

    I love my husband, and I would never even pretend to be interested in another man let alone make sexual comments about them on a public forum.

    Even if you are only kidding - is your partner really okay with that?

    I know my husband wouldn't "feel" very good if I were hitting on other men and being loose with my morals.

    Just sayin'...

    ==========

    P.S. One more thing for Deb...

    In 1 Corinthians 13:6 it says: "Love rejoices in the TRUTH."

    What is the TRUTH, anyway?

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  58. Haha, Dani sweetie, it's called a sense of humor. You are definitely not my type to begin with --let's just start from there...but I was just teasing you and my partner was also laughing about it. Amy is one of my best friends who we were trying lighten up your blog with a little laughter.

    WAY TOO SERIOUS! And I have never cheated on my girlfriend before. So yes, we are monogomous. I love her with all my heart and will continue to do so forever! She is just amazing to me.

    Oh and by the way, you've said a few things to me on the phone that were VERY flattering yourself. ;) Thanks! I appreciated the nice compliments.

    Toodles!

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  59. Ummm....does your hubby know about our conversation and the compliments you gave me? I don't want him to get upset or anything.

    *wink*

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  60. KC! I didn't forget about you!!! I emailed you this:

    I'm offended too! I think it's awful what gay pride parades to do people. They give people like my partner and I a bad name. They run around topless picketing all over God's creation chanting about this...and chanting about that. They are sexually explicit and it just isn't right to do that in public! You are absolutely right! It's sickening. I totally understand that. Totally eye-to-eye with you when it comes down to the gay community.

    My partner and I steer CLEAR of that scene. We have a nice home where we live humbly. See, "PRIDE" in itself is a negative word to which the gay community has adopted. I think it's awful that they used that word. Pride is not humble. Know what I mean? That's why most of the gay community rubs me the wrong way.

    TV, the radio and media is getting really bad. Yes, I agree with that. I just turn it off if I feel offended or if it takes a spin into other areas which I don't feel comfortable with.

    Girl you crack me up with "I'M OFFENDED!!!" I love it! haha! I can totally 'hear' you screaming it! I like you KC, I think you're really cool and interesting. I think your views are great, even though some of our views clash, I think that you and I see things in similar levels as far as displaying smut all over the world.

    Thanks for emailing me!!!

    God bless!
    Deb





    (Wasn't a few comments ago supposed to be my last? Oy vey!)

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  61. Deb - I said you were a beautiful woman, and you are. I think a lot of woman are beautiful - does that make me gay?

    You are a fun loving gal, outgoing, sweet, caring, spunky and many other nice things. But I never said I wanted to see nude pictures of you. There is a difference.

    I have a sense of humor, and understand your need to be lighthearted, but those kind of comments along with the perverted sex talk with "say-it-hot" on my blog are not fitting for a "Christian" woman who supposedly is in-love with her partner.

    Sorry - But all of those nice things get flushed when you proudly profess to be a lesbian.

    You are a great woman, and I do like you - You just need to REPENT!

    P.S. It's good to know that you don't agree with all that prancing around at gay "Pride" parades.

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  62. Deb, Since you responded we can forget the emails since we are posting anyway... My response to you was...

    Deb,
    I had to laugh.... My whiney "Im offended" as I mimic the pc crowd......You would laugh....Im glad we agree on the freaks at the parades...YES PRIDE is one of the 7 sins, perhaps thats why I get so "offended" by it...?
    I bet we could be good friends too.... I read the comments ... A Thing you said about how you treat your partner, and sex is a bonus, really made me see you as a person... I thought.. Damn if she werent gay she would be a GREAT role model... I mean that in a biblical sense, Im not being offensive.
    Truth is i have had gay friends and i still know and speak with people who are gay... ( prob. more times then I know).

    The dividing line in all this is the gay movement wanting to be "normal" they push, we push back....While i think it is nice to see the world where "we all get along"... I believe still in moral absolutes. it is not normal, or morally correct to live that way.
    You mentioned praying and GOD speaking to you... That passage about not being able reproduce? I got that from GOD.
    I asked him during prayer one day , to give me the words to speak without using the Bible as a Reference point.... It was Immediately placed upon my heart....
    "I created the world so everything can reproduce itself w/o any aid and effort....
    From animals to trees, to grass, to single celled amoebas, to mankind. Everything was made to reproduce life, on its own. If it cannot reproduce, it dies off...Men cannot reproduce life with men, nor women with women. Male and female have I created them to bring life to the earth."


    I cant help but think you might be decieved... Evil can mimic. and you know of the father of all lies.... ? Even Mohammed when he was in the dessert said he was being decieved, ( although we think he got it backwards... his first koran was from GOD and the later passages about killing the infidels were from the dark side).


    I think as I said, if it werent so in my face I could live with people living quietly in their own lives.... I would still try to reason and show you the truth in love, but then ......Luke 9;5 shake the dust from my feet if you dont agree with the words.... it will be between you and GOD.

    But then... the problem would be of the adherance of the gay community to adapt to what the world considers normal.
    This brings us right back to the Bible Argument...and the pushing of the gay community
    and so round and round we go...
    Something has to give.

    But thanx for a great communication and the respect.
    Im sure we will speak again... KC


    NOW... I am STARVING.... It is 2;45 and I still did NOT have breakfast. Toast and coffee for breakfast,usually, no lunch. Today i had neither, just coffee and a shower and lotsa conversation.....so I am off to make some toast.

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  63. Dani,

    The funny stuff dialog was meant as a "joke" so we acted like heathens.... hehe,... We weren't serious. I love humor, even if it borderlines the perversion a bit. ;) But thank you really for the compliments. I like you Dani, and I also find you very interesting to talk to as a person.

    KC---I can't help but like you. You crack me up! Yes, we do agree a lot upon things. I hate those "in your face" homosexuals who are so ignorant with important issues on the world. Politically they don't care about anyone but themselves picketing and chanting about 'gay marriages'---there are more important things (in my opinion) than homosexuals having legal rights of getting married. This is why I don't fit the "stereotype" of a lesbian. We do live "quietly" and we do not display our affection in public---ESPECIALLY around children. We have respect for other people and we never want to offend those who are against it.

    See, we either get one or two of the following scenarios when people find out that this 'straight looking' couple is gay...

    1. "THAT'S A SIN!"

    2. "WOW...Can I watch?"

    Both are disturbing to us so we tend to stray away from revealing ourselves as lovers 'in public' unless we are with friends who share the same lifestyle.

    Thanks for responding. I hope your lunch is good!

    Take care! And thank you for the feedback!

    With love,
    Deb

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  64. 1. "THAT'S A SIN!"-- Females.....

    2. "WOW...Can I watch?"--- MALES.........


    In fact I heard men talk that way... LOL
    Truly sad response was from my ex who said If I cheated on him he would leave me but if I cheated with a woman it was ok, and he wanted to watch! SICK BA$Tard. ( sorry Dani).. I m so trying to stay clean-mouthed.

    We do live "quietly" and we do not display our affection in public---ESPECIALLY around children. We have respect for other people and we never want to offend those who are against it.

    There ya go again... being human.... LOL... J/K....I like that.. RESPECT.. especially for the kids...It is so much easier to look at you and say to my kids... We love them, we pray for them.

    Then I look at the "in your face freakazoids" and it is so hard to say love them, pray for them...
    First I have to feel sorry for them.. Swallow my anger and my "OFFENSE".

    This is nice that I can Dialog and get your point of view....
    So I want to ask then ( if you dont mind) DEB... Do you think Gays should go back to the closet? Or at least Live like they are...
    That may sound cruel to you but you basically implied that is how you live, not openly in your face gay.

    Lunch? Just Toast... Yummy...LOL.... Im good till about 8;00 pm now.

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  65. I wrote a response analysis to an interview that Larry King did with a panel of 2 pro-gay-behavior affirming Christian clergy and 2 Bible-based, need-to-repent-of homosexual-behavior-as-sin Christian clergy. There are 3 analysis posts on the King show at my blog, but the Part 2 analysis could very well speak to the topic of conversation going on here.

    Within the post, you will read a complete refutation to the bogus and biblically uninformed claim that, "Jesus never said anything about homosexuality." You will also read the fact that the book of Jude warns about very specific forms of heresy and apostasy that will occur as we inch closer and closer to the last days. The judgment which was placed upon the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Old Testament is used as an example of the judgment that is to come.

    To read an in-depth post about why Jesus told the disciples that a sign of the end times would be like "the days of Lot" go here.

    No matter how much spin the gay-behavior affirming church clergy want to place upon Scripture concerning the sin of homosexuality, they can never change the revealed, unchangeable truth of God that has stood the test of time through thousands of years!

    Finally, I share what is truly anti-gay. Guess what? It is not people like Dani who is busy following God's word and working for His Kingdom in sounding the alarm bells for those who are caught up in the homosexual matrix of deception. It is the gay-behavior affirming churches, clergy, and laity who have been duped into this deception mantra who should look in the mirror when exalting such rhetoric towards those who are trying to lead people out of such deception and into the true message of salvation found in and through Jesus Christ.

    [Note to Dani- The post is long so I didn't know if you wanted me to post it here in comments.]

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  66. Regarding K.C.'s comment, I was very glad to hear that she was offended, offended and offended some more! I must say that as Debbie's partner for twelve years, we often talk about how the gay community goes about with the various agenda's and so forth. I am not saying that the community as a whole, is offensive, just the one's who are so in your face, that you cannot ignore the situation. ANYONE who acts in a rude, and indiscreet manner would irritate me. Also Christians have been putting up with not offending anyone and tip toeing around everyone else's points of interest and socially acceptable topics, we are just tired of it. Not every gay person acts so inappropriately, so don't judge us all because of some bad apples. I just pray and ask God about the situation, and He always answers and never lets me down.

    I am extremely happy with my partner and nothing and no one surpasses that fact--ever. Except the very fact that we both love someone else even more than each other---and that is God. He has blessed me with a wonderful partner who is beautiful, nurturing, funny, creative---many, many things--and she loves God. I am the most fortunate woman in the world. How great is that?
    I pray that we all look at each other without judgement and pray about each and every situation in each other lives and what He would want, instead of throwing stones at each other, we should edify each other.
    Thanks for the comment opportunity.

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  67. “First, I didn't say you were incapable of doing good.
    Secondly, your world view means there will be more people who need emotional support.”

    Everyone who is human needs emotional support. Do you think that only homosexuals have psychotherapy and go through numerous medications per day? Think about it, there are many, many people, straight and gay that have emotional problems. It’s ‘human’.

    Deb, my point is that you are fostering behavior that leads to unnecessary emotional issues that "all" humanity is not having to deal with.
    It's the same with straight people, or any unjustifiably destructive issue, we shouldn't be supporting it.
    It's like if I was advocating heroin use because, "If it feels true in your heart, go with it". And then I boasted about how I was there for the heroin addict and how wonderful it was of me to help out..

    “You are advocating tearing down the boundaries that discourage people from being born gay, which leads to a messed up life.”

    A messed up life? What about heterosexuals who dabble in crack, heroin and marijuana? Drugs mess up people’s lives, divorces messes up people’s lives as well as abusive husbands who messes up their wives’ lives. Think about it, how am I messing up anybody’s life by simply loving another human being? If it bothers someone else, then they have issues of their own to contend to.

    I agree with you, all those things you mentioned, including homosexuality mess up peoples life and I'm happy to see you associate homosexuality with brokenness.
    Deb, can love be destructive?

    “Once you answer this Deb, I'll reaffirm to you biblically what God has already revealed to you: Homosexuality is wrong, in opposition to God, unloving, unhealthy, ungodly, self destructive and leads to misery and early death. Whereas a healthy *loving* marriage between a man and a women leads to life and bypasses the consequences of perverse sexual behaviors.”

    I disagree. I have a personal relationship with God as I have told you. It’s amazing when I sit, meditate and pray to Him, how He answers me. There are many spiritual encounters I have had with God, and His angels which I list in the book that I wrote which can be found on my site to purchase. He led me to write the book which led me into a higher realm of understanding and discernment for His love. An early death? So you base homosexuality with longevity? That’s very interesting. Both my partner and I have been in the same relationship for twelve years. We are HIV- and we both practice safe sex by being monogamous. We live a very beautiful life with many friends, and many family members. Our family members lifespan goes well into their nineties. Must be all that Italian and Latina blood! But who’s to say that God won’t take me today? No one knows their time of death.

    Deb, I'm still not getting an answer to my question, which including email, I have asked about 5 times now.
    This is the last time I'm going to ask it. "If homosexuality is wrong do you agree it's not loving for you to try and justify it at $15 dollars a pop?"
    Can you just answer the question hypothetically, point blank. Then I'll establish homosexuality is wrong.
    I'm happy to provide all the Biblical and worldly evidence that it is wrong. I'm just waiting to see if you can even answer it as a hypothetical.
    And yes, we can know that if we live healthy lives, according to God's word, that in general we can have longer healthy lives, emotionally and physically.
    Whereas if we live unhealthy destructive lives, we are more likely to die young. Which is what we see in the homosexual community: Disease and premature death.
    And you are a part of that Deb, regardless of how careful you are in your own sexually perverse relationships. You share in the guilt Deb.

    “A loving homosexual relationship is oxymoronic.”

    Hmm. I beg to differ. When my partner is sick, I take care of her, I make her soup, I tuck her in, I rub her back and I make sure she is comfortable. I would walk to the ends of the earth for her. Even if we weren’t able to have sex (which I admit—we go without for a while sometimes like normal couples) it doesn’t matter to me. Sex is just a bonus. We are just like a married couple. She does things for me, and I do things for her---because it’s a loving homosexual relationship. When you think “homosexual”----you automatically think “BAD WORD”. It’s not. There are different circumstances with certain groups that tend to give loving couples like my partner and I a bad name. I totally understand why you think that though. But we are no promiscuous at all. What we have is unconditional love---which means no conditions whatsoever in a loving relationship. I don’t find our relationship an oxymoron. I would do absolutely anything for this woman. She is my best friend, my lover, and most of all, my family now. She makes me laugh, makes me smile when I’m down, and accepts all my flaws and idiosyncrasies. I’m a lot to deal with---believe me! And she still stuck it out with me. (Not sure why!!!) heh

    You would do absolutely anything for her? IF homosexuality is wrong, would you stop seeing her?
    It's easy for me to agree that in a relationship of depravity, there are degrees of depravity within it. Some homosexual relationships are not as destructive as others.
    And all those wonderful things you mention about your homosexual relationship, nambla can say the same things Deb. those into bestiality can make the same arguments.
    I love my dog, he does things for me and I do things for him, he accepts me unconditionally, it's not just about sex..
    Adult consent, doesn't make a wrong right And lastly, unconditional love does not encourage destructive behaviors. I'm sure you would agree with me that a women who stays in an unhealthy marriage, allowing her husband to beat her every day, under the guise of "unconditional love", would be utterly sick, right? So unconditional love doesn't justify the wrongs we do. And it can actually be unconditional hate.

    “Yes I am homophobic and out of the closet, but it "Feels" true to me, so..I'm sure you don't mind.
    Really, what difference could it make in your world view what I am, you love me anyways and only God can change me.”

    No, I don’t mind that you’re a homophobic. It’s the same with agoraphobia or any other disorders. I totally respect that. I’m afraid of Christians who hate or are afraid of other human beings. This causes many feuds and hate crimes. People who say what you just said, usually end up hurting someone like me and my partner physically. God doesn’t approve of hate or judgment upon your fellow Christians. But, it’s your right to hate. God gave all of us a choice.

    It's not a disorder, homosexuality is the disorder. Unless you believe God also has a disorder he needs treatment for.
    And if homophobia is wrong, you should never say you "respect it". That wouldn't be loving Deb.
    And generally it's the homosexuals who beat one another up Deb.
    And no Deb, it's not "Right" to hate without a just cause, but it doesn't surprise me that in your fake love, you are even trying to justify that in God's name. Because again, your love is hate. You are guilty of what you say God truly doesn't approve of, hate without a just cause.
    Right judgment is good, whether it's another believer or an unbeliever, wrong judgment is not. Your judgments are wrong and destructive, built on the foundation that anything goes, as long as you believe it's true in your heart, it is. That is the foundation of your world view, not the Bible.
    Deb, does truth exist outside of your hearts?

    “What truth? That regardless of what you feel, it's good and true?
    Tell that to the person who wants to beat up homosexuals for entertainment purposes because it "feels right to him. You are no ones true friend if you are telling them "If it feels good do it". "Right and Wrong is a matter of one's feelings"
    You are their enemy. Deb.”

    I see you’ve entertained the thought of hate crimes. Why don’t we focus on those who beat up people of different races. That’s scary in itself. What if someone decided to beat up a black man just because of his skin color? It happens every day. There are people who want to inflict harm on others. It’s the way the world works. Is it right? No. But I’m not beating anyone up for their beliefs. So I’m “okay” with me. I am no one’s enemy. That is your opinion, because you hate homosexuals. You would believe how many heterosexuals and homosexuals I am friends with. We are so fortunate to have a wide circle of friends and family. So I disagree with your mindset and how you conjured all this up.

    Hey, it's based on your worldview, I'm just pointing out that it justifies whatever someone wants to do. "If it's true in my heart for me, go with that"
    Secondly, skin color and behavior are 2 different things. It's not immoral or destructive to have black skin. It is immoral and destructive to be a homosexual.
    And you are the one selling books that foster homosexuality, that is the hate crime Deb.
    And I'm not the one who "Hates" homosexuals, you are. If homosexuality is wrong, destructive and unhealthy, It's not the ones who want to recriminalize it who hate them.
    It's liberals like you who attempt to justify it for $$$ that are loving them to death. Politicians do the same thing, they encourage it for money and power.
    Christian Conservatives appose it, because it's unjustifiably destructive.

    “You are selfish Deb and willfully ignorant: "Hey son, go beat up some homosexuals, I love you unconditionally!"..Your world view undermines the very love you say you have for your gay lover..
    Your definition of love is hate Deb. You don't mind judging, that's clear to me as this whole email is a judgment against me and the view that homosexuality is wrong.”

    No one who knows me personally would ever say that I’m selfish. I’m selfish because I have a beautiful relationship with my partner? How can you write, “Hey son go beat up some homosexuals, I love you unconditionally!” -----THAT’S a hate crime. Your views and beliefs are very ignorant which will lead you with hate in your heart---which in result causes a lack in longevity. My definition of love is written in the Corinthians:
    Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. Love does not demand its own way. Love is not irritable, and it keeps no record of when it has been wronged. It is never glad about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance. ~1 Corinthians 13:4-7
    And no, I don’t mind you judging, because that’s what you do. I don’t judge. We have many differences----and yet strong upon our faith and beliefs. That’s our right.


    Deb you are the one actually committing hate crimes. Mine was an example that can easily be justified by your own world view of , "If it's true in your heart, go with that"..
    If I want to beat up homosexuals, your entire world view justifies. Even your twisted definition of love that you would have to apply to me.
    Co 13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
    1Co 13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
    1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
    1Co 13:7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
    IF homosexuality is wrong, this definition of love rebukes you Deb.
    Homosexuality and those who support it are "Unseemly" "Seeketh their own, at 15 dollars a copy"
    "Easily provoked at those who stand against it". "Thinketh evil" "Rejoiceth in iniquity" "Hates the truth"
    "Bearth all things destructive" "Believes all things, true flow from the heart" "Hopes all thing's are right, as long as it's from the heart" "Endureth all things, but the truth"

    “It doesn't feel good to me to marry my husband, since I'm a dude..It did feel good to me to marry my wife, because she is a homophobic Christian Conservative and I was not led by my feelings apart from God's word that I saw in her. Also, the concept of marriage between man and woman is *right* to begin with. Unlike you, I don't have to search scripture to feel good about heterosexuality and the concept of marriage between a man and a women. It can feel good for some people to marry based on ungodly motives and feelings, which leads to failed, abusive marriages and broken children.”

    Well that explains a lot. I didn’t know you were a man----slipped my mind. Or a “dude”. What leads to failed and abusive marriages and broken children are abusive parents OR parents who hate. Parents who teach their children that homosexuals are bad people---which leads them to go out there and beat ‘one of us’ up. That’s what leads a broken home. Our home isn’t broken. We are full of love, full of family and friends, and this will never change because we are very very happy. AND we have GOD in our lives!!! I love that!

    Deb, It's easy for me to agree that Parents who teach their kids to beat up homosexuals are wrong. Parents who teach thier kids that homosexuality is destructive and to appose it, are not wrong, but have a deep love for thieir kids. I have addressed the rest of this paragraph already. It's just more repititious, we love one another.

    “I'll ask again, in a different way. Who's phylosophy is more in tune with God's word..."If it feels true in your heart it is true" or, "Homosexuality is an abomination to God" "Men and women burn in lust towards one another, because they have decided it's not worth while to retain God in their knowledge" Which is true Deb, your heart that says homosexuality is not wrong, or God's words here?”

    To “me”, you do not speak God’s words. Only GOD speaks His words to me. No human will tell me ‘what God said’, because God speaks to my heart. Promiscuity is an abomination to God, having orgies is an abomination to God, not loving another person of the same gender. Sorry-----but that’s how I feel.

    Yes I know that's how you feel Deb. You have already made it abundently clear your walk with God is feelings based. Why do you keep appologizing for it? lol..
    Again, I can agree with you Deb that the things you mentioned are wrong. But hey..my feelings are telling me they are not, so who do I believe, God's word or my feelings?

    “Deb, have you ever in your life past these words on to an unbeliever you have such deep and profound love for?”

    Interesting you should say this. I have changed a non-believing atheist into believing Christ. I have told the way I believed to many people who didn’t believe, and now they have faith in God. Amazing, huh? But when people who are homophobes scare people away from believing in the “HATEFUL” God that you speak of----then you draw them away from God. Do you know how sad God is about that? VERY. If you discourage anybody from following God, that alone is an abomination.

    God hates the heart of the wicked out of his love for the innocent. It's not God who hates unjustly Deb, it's you.
    Which God deb? It's an abomination to discurage people from falling the one true God, who wrote the Bible.
    It's not an abomination to discuage them away from your version of that God, who's written word is trumped and contradicted by your heart full of truth.

    “Can you give me the verses where God's word says Homosexuality is okie dokie with him?”

    And can you give me the verses where “JESUS” says that homosexuality is wrong? And that two people of the same gender cannot love one another?

    Yes I can show you in the ministry of Jesus where he is apposed to all sexual relationships outside marrage, including homosexuality.
    Even though God's word is not confined to the ministry of Jesus' earthly physical time and he didn't directly speak against every single paticular sin.
    But can you please answer my question first?

    “It's not the love of God in us that causes us to support wrongs Deb. You are doing wrong and know it. This leads to a lack of self love and a cycle of self punishment which includes others. A lack of self love comes from doing wrong Deb. Whether it's you or someone else doing the wrong to you. Your "self love" you claim to have, in this case is narcissism and self-centeredness. I can easily concede that homosexuals can often do "nice" things. I'm saying homosexuality is not one of them. It's because of love, not a lack thereof that I appose homosexuality. Again, you should be able to concede that if homosexuality is wrong, it's not loving to agree with it.”

    I’m not doing wrong—and you know it, or you wouldn’t be so bothered by it. I am not hurting you or others. I don’t have a lack of self love, … I take very good care of my health and body, physically and mentally – as well as my partner does too. I am not self-centered as you wish I would be. I am a giving person who provides emotional support to those who need it. I work with people who have a hard time coping with life, and have helped numerous people. I am in no way shape or form conceited. Being homosexual is none of anyone’s business except mine. And I know that God is accepting of my relationship----you can’t tell me otherwise. This argument is lacking any growth here, so this will be my last comment, as I have many many articles in my archives to support my faith.

    “Nope, you are not happy Deb. It's a facade. Your "happiness" is not evidence that your homosexuality is right Deb. It's no more evidence then the smile on the kid's face who eats his fill of candy..only to later end up sick..In fact, it's a bad sign when you are happily doing wrong. hmm..is that even possible..?”

    How can you tell me I’m not happy? (haha) This is humorous to me. I’m not doing wrong---I am doing what’s right. I am loving another beautiful woman who I have been with for twelve years. Our love is special and it’s the type of love that is unconditional. I have never been happier in my life. I was involved with a man for a short time before my partner, and he made me unhappy. I wasn’t in love with him nor did I want to do any loving things for him, because he was ‘just a friend’ in my eyes. We were supposed to be engaged, and I knew in my heart that it was the WRONG thing to do FOR ME. “FOR ME” I emphasize, … so what’s “right” for someone may not be “right” for somebody else. For instance, I believe that God has placed unique and different people for purposes of learning. It’s whether or not it’s right for you. Murdering/promiscuity/rape/ and hurting people intentionally is wrong. Loving another person? Naw. You can never persuade my mind that God doesn’t approve of me.

    Blah blah blah, If you believe it's right for you, in your beautiful heart to own a black person as a slave against their will and beat them 3 times day, well then it's right for you..

    But I want to thank you for taking the time out to comment back to me. I appreciate your concern. I am however, concerned with the numerous times you brought up hate crimes against homosexuals. Did you know that the KKK have this mindset? They’re Christians too. I hope that it doesn’t boil down to that level of hatred.

    lol..this coming from an actual hate criminal. Deb, comon..you know I brought them up as examples to show the nonsensical world view you hold to.

    Again, I wish you well. This is my last comment on this board, and I hope that you enjoy your life and that your life is fulfilling as you say it to be. I wish that for you. I wish you nothing but happiness, joy and laughter throughout your life. I hope you have unconditional love that lasts till your 110 yrs old! And I wish you longevity.

    God bless!

    Well...I started this conversation with a hypothetical that was never directly answered..and unless it is, I will not post my detailed case that homosexuality is wrong.
    I'll leave Deb with the same hypothetical I started with that is easy for me to answer. "If homosexuality is wrong Deb, would you concede your position is wrong?" I'll concede that if it's right, Christian conservatives are wrong.." I'll repent. But if it is wrong, do you agree that true love would not approve of it and that you need to repent? (turn from it)
    The reason that Deb's world view is based on her feelings, is because it's convenient for her when she runs into Biblical truths that reaffirm that side for her position. "Her feelings trumpets clear Biblical teachings"
    But is she even being honest about her feelings? No, not all of them.

    Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
    Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
    Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
    What things did he manifest in them?
    Fundamental Moral truth. Which he also reaffirmed to Moses and engraved in stone.
    Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
    So the consequences of their"Feelings" ministry followed..
    Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
    Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
    Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

    Not only do the same, but write books for 15 dollars a copy having pleasure in them that do such things.

    Thanks for the space Dani,
    God bless
    Danny
    Deb, you can email me if you like, but only if you are willing to answer the hypothetical directly.

    ReplyDelete
  68. "The reason that Deb's world view is based on her feelings, is because it's convenient for her when she runs into Biblical truths that *Refute*<--Correction) her position. "Her feelings trumpet clear Biblical teachings"

    ReplyDelete
  69. Danny, I hope you don't mind, but after reading a few paragraphs of your stuff, I scanned over it right to the comment section to let you know that you're argument is tiresome, and there is nothing you can do or say to sway my beliefs. Sorry.

    I will never leave my partner. End of story.

    If you want to know my beliefs and biblical scriptures to back up my faith and my relationship, go by my book or read my archives.

    That's all!

    Going out with my girlfriend tonight, I suggest you focus more on your wife. ;)

    ReplyDelete
  70. lol..Yeah it is tiresome, but we could have avoided all of that repetition if you would have not dodged my initial question to begin with.

    My primary goal is not to persuade you. You already know the truth that you are wrong. I just wanted to expose that, which is why I kept asking the same old hypothetical question that you refuse to answer. And why I rarely quoted Bible verses.. It shows you already know and are without legitimate excuse. That was my primary goal. Your repentance would just be a bonus.

    I agree, I will now focus less time on you and more time on my wife.

    Xaire,

    Danny

    ReplyDelete
  71. Anybody who callz himself "Danny Shadow" and ain't got the ballz to come outta da blog closet and put hiz real name out there and/or a way to find out whodafuckheiz, got zero credibility in my book...

    dude's fulla shit...

    (Prob'ly Enyart...)

    ReplyDelete
  72. Little Stevie, put down the crack pipe. I thought ..how can I expose this fool?..Then I realized you did my job for me..with your post.

    "got zero credibility in my book..."

    What book is that? "little stevies 1001 ways to fit in with the world"

    Step 1, expose yourself as a fool every chance you get..

    You have 0 credibility with me and it doesn't matter who you physically are..or where you are physically at. And if anyone does find your world view credible, they hate you and are worse off then you are...which..is really sad..

    Danny

    ReplyDelete
  73. Thanks Christine for sharing your thoughts and wisdom. Also, thanks for the great links - I'm looking forward to reading them later on.

    ==================

    Maddie said - "I am extremely happy with my partner and nothing and no one surpasses that fact--ever. Except the very fact that we both love someone else even more than each other---and that is God...I pray that we all look at each other without judgment and pray about each and every situation in each other lives and what He would want..."

    Your statement is self-refuting and dripping with hypocrisy. How can you claim to love God more when you refuse to obey what He says? By living as a lesbian with Deb you are not only mocking God, but you are openly living in direct disobedience to what God says to be true in the Bible. No matter how you manage to justify your sinful perversion in your own mind, and no matter what you "feel" to be be true - homosexuality is always going to be considered a destable act against nature and an abomination to the God you supposedly love.

    ==============

    Deb said to Danny : "There is nothing you can do or say to sway my beliefs. Sorry. I will never leave my partner. End of story."

    Here we have it: A public confession from Deb, giving up in utter defeat and announcing that being with her partner is much more important than obeying God.

    Ya know - I wouldn't care so much that Deb is a lesbian, but what really pisses me off is that she has the nerve to proclaim to be a Christian too. And her book - Please, don't make me laugh! HA-HA-HA-HA - I just can't help it! Since when does a book written by a lesbian have authority over what God says in the Bible?

    Sadly, people are so willfully ignorant of the truth, they blindly follow Deb who is severely deceiving many into believing a false gospel of love and encouraging them to live a life leading towards death.

    Do not be deceived: God will NOT be mocked; and you will reap what you sow, Deb.

    ===============

    My pal KC who wrote this post Luke 9:5 reminded me of something I said to Deb awhile back after being accused of being "hateful" and "angry" - and it stills rings true today. Here's what I said:

    "And yes, it makes me angry and sad that someone would take advantage of Christ's death by essentially saying - 'Thanks Jesus, for dying on the cross for my sins and all...but my personal happiness with my partner is far more important than following you - Hey, we're all sinners so no biggie, right?'"

    This is what KC added: That is the attitude used in defense of their lifestyle... "Jesus Died for our sins". It is like a cold slap in the face however and like crucifying him all over when you knowingly commit a sin.

    When you would rather come out of the closet then clean it... it is time for JESUS' RETURN!


    Well said!

    ================

    Even my buddy Freethinker who is a self-proclaimed atheist knows more about the Christian faith than Deb and Maddie. How can it be so obvious to someone who doesn't even believe in God, but Deb and Maddie don't have the slightest clue?

    This is what Freethinker said:

    "I just don't see how anyone can call themselves a Gay Christian. That sounds as silly as a Black Klansman!"

    I just have to laugh and the innocent observation from a non-believer. So TRUE!

    =================

    To Danny Shadow -

    Your "kind" are always welcome to comment here anytime. Make yourself RIGHT at home my friend.

    I know you are busy attending to your wife and spreading hate to the world, but if you get a chance check out these two posts: Ugly Rant and This is it, by some fool named Mike. You'll get a real kick out of them!

    (*Pssst Danny...Whatever you do - don't tell anyone you’re a fan of Bob Enyart, you'll loose instant credibility with all the lesbians and losers of the far left.)

    ReplyDelete
  74. Danny Shadow, i.e., "Dani's Shadow" said....

    "You have 0 credibility with me and it doesn't matter who you physically are..or where you are physically at."

    I gotta enuff credibility withya to have warranted a lame-ass response fromya...
    ...and all ya did with it wuz endorse my previous statement that yer fulla shit...

    and then Danny's Shadow sez...

    "...What book is that?"

    Well, Hell Danny-boy...If ya took the time to read my comment..You'll find that the answer wuz and still iz "My" book...can you not read?...
    It duz seem rather silly to ask a question that's already answered before ya ask it again..Here, lemme helpya out...

    my /mi/adj.1. of or relating to me or myself 2. used interjectionally esp. to express surprise. (The Merriam-Webster Dictionary)

    I searched the same dictionary, btw, in hopes that I could find the definition of "shit" just to be fair withya...Alas, it wuz not to be...
    I defer to you for the definition of that word since I feel that it might be a little more in your arena...

    Oh...fuckin'...MY!!!

    ReplyDelete
  75. >> Danny Shadow, i.e., "Dani's Shadow" <<

    Hey good one Stevo!

    Great minds think alike - Danny Shadow is one smart dude!

    ReplyDelete
  76. Dani said...
    "Thanks Christine for sharing your thoughts and wisdom. Also, thanks for the great links - I'm looking forward to reading them later on."

    You're welcome Dani. When you read them, you will see irrefutable arguments through God's wisdom as revealed by His Word, the Bible. There is no question about homosexual behavior being sin in God's eyes. We know this to be true, but those who don't know God's Word apparently do not. All we can do is witness and share God's truth, pray for them, and hope that one day their eyes will be opened and they will realize the deception they are currently living under.

    You have been steadfast in your loving witness towards Deb here. I haven't read all of the posts, but the ones I have read show the agape love of Christ in you while pointing out the dangers of impenitence.

    As Christian believers, willful sinning is not to be on our radar screen! This is where we get the saying, "God forbid" from. Jesus said, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments." Jesus did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. Not one jot nor tittle shall pass from the law until all is complete. The salvation, mercy and grace of Jesus Christ is not to be used as an excuse to continue sinning!

    There are many verses that share this concept. Here are just a few:

    1Cr 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make [them] the members of an harlot? God forbid.

    Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, [is] therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

    Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

    Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

    Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.


    All we can do is plant such seeds of God's Word. Ultimately, it is up to the Holy Spirit's prompting to convict the heart of a person to turn from their way(s) of sin.

    ReplyDelete
  77. "I gotta enuff credibility withya to have warranted a lame-ass response fromya...

    You probably should have also looked up the definition of credibility, little vulgar Stevie: "the quality of being believable or trustworthy"

    Your neither in a good sense. My mocking you doesn't prove either one. Stevie. From your perspective, does your mocking me prove my position on homosexuality is believable and trustworthy, in the slightest?
    What your mocking of healthy boundaries objectively proves, is that you hate people, including yourself.

    "...and all ya did with it wuz endorse my previous statement that yer fulla shit..."

    I don't believe you or trust you lil Stevie. I said you are a "fool" and you are. But, you already know this.
    So of course what I said "endorses" your first take on me, to *you* lol..In fact, I would suspect that what you say about me will be endorsed by all your God hating, women hating, porn freak friends. Your previous statement is as "credible" as your follow up, with the pervious mentioned group.

    ""...What book is that?"

    "Well, Hell Danny-boy...If ya took the time to read my comment..You'll find that the answer wuz and still iz "My" book...can you not read?..."

    "iz yer fulla wuz.." Well..your not exactly making it easy for me lil worldly Stevie. I simply pointed out what your book is and you continue to set examples from it with your latest effort.

    "It duz seem rather silly to ask a question that's already answered before ya ask it again..Here, lemme helpya out...
    my /mi/adj.1. of or relating to me or myself 2. used interjectionally esp. to express surprise. (The Merriam-Webster Dictionary)"

    Lil worldly Stevie, I'm as happy as anyone else here that you understand what *my* means and how to paste from a dictionary.

    Try this word Rhetorical:"rhetorical question is one asked solely to produce an effect (especially to make an assertion) rather than to elicit a reply"

    T a l k i n g. s l o w l y. f o r. p o r n-b o y....I put your "my book" statement in the form of a question and then elaborated on it myself. Now I'm pointing out that you are being true to your book. If you don't like my take on your book, refute it. As of now, you are just establishing my first take on it is accurate.

    "I searched the same dictionary, btw, in hopes that I could find the definition of "shit" just to be fair withya...Alas, it wuz not to be..."
    I defer to you for the definition of that word since I feel that it might be a little more in your arena...

    You were looking in the wrong place, See here:
    http://www.blogger.com/profile/7454734

    Oh...fuckin'...MY!!!

    Yeah, shocking isn't it, the definition was right under your hate, er nose.., this the whole time.

    Spreading the message of truth to the hateful, one drunken porn freak at a time,

    Danny

    ReplyDelete
  78. Dani,

    I just wrote a blogpost that refers to this thread. Thought you might like to read it.

    ReplyDelete
  79. Danny Shadow sez ".......You were looking in the wrong place, See here:
    http://www.blogger.com/profile/7454734.

    Hunted fer yer profile URL az well...couldn't find it...even searched under "KKK/cloak.com"..No dice...

    (Yaaawwwwnnnn....)

    ReplyDelete
  80. Lil Stevie said, "Hunted fer yer profile URL az well...couldn't find it...even searched under "KKK/cloak.com"..No dice...

    Thanks for pointing that out.

    Danny

    ReplyDelete
  81. No problem...mighta foundya here tho'..

    http://www.blogger.com/profile/26959855

    ReplyDelete
  82. Stevo - That's totally NOT cool to put your mom up there like that.

    Common man, have at least an ounce of dignity in your bones.

    Or is that your lady you like to cuddle up next to? My bad!

    ReplyDelete
  83. Such hateful tripe from somebody who presents herself as the paragon of Christian love, purity and grace.

    Dani, you SHOULD be ashamed of yourself. But alas, you're not. You're actually proud and boastful about your nastiness.

    I grieve for you and your children.

    ReplyDelete
  84. Nice blog!

    I thought I would share so you could compare your notes with mine:

    http://www.talkwisdom.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2594

    ReplyDelete
  85. Reading these posts I have to ask what Deb truly believes in.
    If you truly believe in God and salvation that Christ offers us, you must accept this truth and the Bible it is written in. Yes, we are saved by Grace, but we overlook what Christ said. "If you love me you keep my commandments."
    We forget Paul's warning of Hebrew's 10:26-27 "For if we continue to sin wilfully after we have recieved the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no mor sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearfull looking of judgement.

    The Word of God often conflicts with what we practice in our lives. We have two choices, acknowlege our transgressions and repent of them, or become enslaved by them. This requires following a gospel of apostacy that we fabricate in our minds and rationalize by twisting the Scriptures as needed.

    2000 years ago double minded pharasees did it, creating and obeying their own
    laws, weasel clauses to get around them, as they selectivly interpreted God's Word to suit them. Christ had harsh words to say about their practices then, and yet we do it today, as we legalize immorality, from wall street or our own bedrooms, but it is still sin that separates us from God.

    We are commanded to love God with all our hearts and all of minds.
    Some believe that they are saved by Grace, but use it as a rationalization for 'a get out of jail free card. Sin is a reality in all our lives, and hypocracy abounds in us, and yet we absolve ourselves by our own rationalizations. The
    Bible is not a smorgasboard that we can pick and choose from to suit our lifestyle.

    We are saved by grace, and the manifestation of that salvation is seen in trying to live holy lives and following the teachings of our Savior. Sin is a
    reality in our lives, something to be avoided and repented of when it occurs,
    but to willfull rationalize it and embrace it, puts us in peril warned of in
    Hebrews 10. Having sin in you life, is like wearing earmuff and trying to have
    a conversation with God, you might miss what He is trying tell you, or hear what you want to hear. At these times you need to seek out God's word in the bible.

    To be truly loved is the desire of every man and woman, and I can sympathize with her situation, but the bible is clear on her lifestyle. Our savior forgave
    the woman at the well, but he admonished her to go and sin no more. At some point in every person's live comes a crisis of faith, where they have to make a choice between putting God first or walking away from Him. I don't see Deb as a neurotic Christian, but one that is trying to resolve the moral schizophrenia of her situation, with difficult choices to make. Making no choice is still a choice

    Deb will probably always have this love for this person, but
    it needs to grow into a love for a sister and not with the baggage of an alternate lifestyle. Deb needs to resolve her relationship with the savior that died on the Cross to assure her salvation before she can resolve her spiritural struggle.

    Deb as a Christian, ultimatly has to make a choice between between her lifestyle, or God's Grace. This will be a true test of her Christian faith and what she truly professes believes in.

    Evan B.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Phenomenal post, Evan!

    Very eloquently said and packed full of wisdom. Hopefully one day Deb will see the error of her ways and revolve the moral schizophrenia of her situation!

    Please continue to comment here! It's always good to hear the perspective from a "poster boy" like you!

    ReplyDelete
  87. As over five years have passed, I'm Setting the Record Straight: An Open Apology to “Lesbian” Deb & Public Repentance for Following Bob Enyart

    http://worstgenerationseed.blogspot.com/2012/02/setting-record-straight-open-apology-to.html

    ReplyDelete

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