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TRUTH:
"Have No Fellowship With the Unfruitful Works of Darkness, But Rather EXPOSE Them!" ~ GOD, Ephesians 5:11

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March 20, 2006

SPANKING: Dr. Spock vs. Scripture

The following is part of a letter I wrote to another Christian mom regarding the topic of corporal punishment. The Lord prompted my heart to respond in this manner after receiving a letter from her describing the disciplining methods she uses with her children.
If you are a parent, chances are pretty good that Dr. Spock has formed your worldview on child rearing and warped your thinking about discipline, so this letter is written to you as well...

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Greetings Friend ~

I write this to you in a spirit of love, and I hope you can receive this in the way it is intended. I have prayerfully put much time and consideration into what I am going to present to you and I ask that you read it with an open heart and a willingness to learn. I want you to know that this is not a contest to see who is right or wrong, but an opportunity to encourage one another, seek out the truth in love, and actually do what is right in God’s eyes.

As you know, children are not born knowing how to be well behaved. You don't have to teach them to lie, cheat, throw a tantrum, or talk back because all of those things come naturally to children born with a sinful nature. As parents, we have to diligently teach our children to obey, and Godly discipline will keep children from being dysfunctional later in life. A disciplined child will bring great delight to parents, but a child left to himself will bring nothing but shame to the home and destruction to society.

When my husband and I tell our kids to do something, we say it once, and we expect them to do as they are told immediately. If they don’t, we discipline them – simple! In our home, delayed obedience is disobedience, regardless of any circumstance. This is not to say all of our methods are perfect by any means, but our children are extremely obedient, loving, joyful and confident in the Lord. We can take our kids to restaurants, grocery stores, a friend’s house, on a road trip across the country, or an 8-hour flight to Hawaii without fear because they are a delight to us and everyone else who meets them. Our girls have a strong desire to please us and make us happy in all that they do. They are very sensitive to the Holy Spirit, and when we discipline them, they demonstrate true repentance, and they love us even more for it!

I have to be completely honest, your disciplining techniques sound like they are straight out of Dr. Spock’s child training manual - void of godly wisdom and Biblical instruction. I will be frank, these methods are completely contrary to Scripture, and they are closely aligned with worldly psychology “experts.” Now this is not to say that everything you are doing is wrong, of course you are a wonderful mother and you love your children dearly. But reading those scenarios you gave caused me to raise my eyebrows in absolute astonishment because your thinking is completely immersed in secular humanism.

Don’t take this as a personal attack. Chances are you were never properly taught child-rearing techniques from a Biblical perspective; at least that’s how it appears. Please continue to read this with an open heart as we examine what you said, and compare it with...

Dr. Spock vs. Scripture:
You said: “I don't believe in the reward/punishment system. I believe in natural and logical consequences for poor choices.”
Dr. Spock: “Children's motives are good most of the time. There is no one "right" way to discipline... Learning how to use natural and logical consequences may be one of the most important skills that parents can learn.”
Scripture: "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him." - Proverbs 22:15

"The rod and reproof give wisdom; But a child left to himself brings shame to his mother…Correct your son, and he will give you rest; Yes, he will give delight to your soul." - Proverbs 29:15,17

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You said: “I think if you punish your child, it does one of three things. It causes resentment, sneakiness, or complete loss of self-esteem.”
Dr. Spock: “Suppose you give your child a spanking. Afterward, he is more likely to feel resentful and angry at you. In the future, when tempted, his only thought will be to avoid being caught…None of these feelings will help him, in the long run, be the kind of person you want him to be.”

Scripture: “Do not withhold correction from a child; For if you beat him with a rod, he will not die. You shall beat him with a rod, and deliver his soul from hell.” - Proverbs 23:13-14

"He who spares his rod hates his son; But he who loves him disciplines him promptly." - Proverbs 13:24

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You said: “I don't want my son to fear me, I want him to respect me. I try to let him learn from his mistakes on his own.”
Dr. Spock: “If you spank your child he is more likely to feel resentful and angry at you...And if the spanking is hard enough, he might also feel afraid of you.”

Scripture: “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction”
Proverbs 1:7
The Bible repeatedly says to fear the Lord. Fear is a good thing! Your children will respect you if they fear the consequences for bad behavior. If your children do not fear you, how will they ever learn to fear the Lord?

====================================Finally, you said: “Admittedly, punishment works, at least in the short term, and it's easy…But in the long run, I feel better about myself, and I think my kids will feel better about themselves, too.”Dr. Spock: “Of course, you could create a harsh system of rewards and punishments…But what would be the effect on the child's spirit, on his sense of self-worth, on his personal happiness, or on his feelings toward others?”Scripture: “ Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.” - Hebrews 12:11

"Chasten your son while there is hope; And do not set your heart on his destruction."- Proverbs 19:18

With all due respect, God is not primarily concerned about you or your children “feeling better” about yourselves. Naturally, it does not “feel” good when a child receives a spanking. Nor does it “feel” very good when a mother has to spank her child and cause him to cry. I know how it just breaks mama’s heart to hear your little one cry out in pain, but God does not tell us to follow our “feelings,” He tells us to follow His Holy Word. Love is not a “feeling,” it is a choice to do what is right - And sometimes love hurts.

The purpose of a spanking is not to cause any lasting bodily harm, but to cause spiritual correction. A spanking should be swift and cause short-lived pain that makes a point. That point is that the small pain they feel now will prevent them from feeling great pain by the act they are committing, which could cause them loss of their lives in some cases. For instance, if a child tries to run across the street, using “natural and logical” consequences could cause the child be run over by a car and killed. When we tell our children to "stop" - it means NOW, not after I count to three. By then it could be too late.

Now I'm not saying that you are living in direct disobedience towards God, but you are not exactly pursuing a path of obedience when it comes to disciplining your children in a Godly manner. Perhaps it is just a mere coincidence that your worldview on child training is almost identical to Dr. Spock’s teaching? Nonetheless, if you love your children, I only hope that this would cause you to re-examine your philosophies to align them with Scripture.

It’s not surprising to see the attempts by the Dr. Spock generation and other non-spanking advocates trying to discredit the Bible. Do not be fooled! My prayer is that you would lay aside the hurt from your childhood and any preconceived notions you have about discipline, and begin to approach child rearing from a Biblical standpoint. These so-called child rearing “experts” try to convince their readers that the Bible doesn’t really mean what it says and you seem to have fallen prey to this notion.

Nevertheless, the Bible is the inspired Word of God and it is the number one bestseller of all time; selling far more copies than Dr. Spock ever did. The Bible is thousands of years old, full of timeless wisdom and instruction (specifically on child training), and it's worthy of our praise. In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)
Please don't take my advice, for I'm certainly not the ultimate authority on this matter. I would strongly encourage you to examine what the Word of God says regarding discipline and not merely rely on your own methods and understanding, ie. “feelings,” as they are always changing.

Proverbs 3:5-6 - "Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths."The practical wisdom found in many verses in the book of Proverbs covers the subject of child rearing and corporal punishment in detail. Parents have the responsibility to seek out the truth and obey it. We only get one chance to raise our children, and we better do it right!

Proverbs 22:6 - "Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it."

Well, I have said enough for now. I sincerely hope you receive this with love and instruction and look to the Word of God for your ultimate guide to TRUTH ~ May the Lord be with you.

United in Christ,

Danielle

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Links:
- Dr. Spock: "Expert" Advice on Discipline- Bible.com: Spanking Children
- To Train Up A Child - by Michael & Debi Pearl
- NO FEAR: A Police Officer's Perspective - Robert Surgenor
- No Spanking: Alternative Child Discipline

15 comments:

  1. Man of Man. Dr. Spock and other so called experts are terribly wrong when it comes to tru discipline of you children.

    Dr. Spocks son committed suicide. What does that say about his methods?

    Biblically we as parents need to take a loving and yet stearn approach at disciplining our children.

    Bravo Dani. Once again you amaze.
    Blessings.
    Tony

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  2. Tony,

    I'm afraid you've been the victim of repeating false information. Whoever told you that Dr. Spock's son comitted suicide told you a dirty rotten lie.

    To expose your urban legend, I had to go through the rigorous process of typing Dr. Spock's name into a Google search engine. 5 seconds later, the truth emerged. You might try this in the future before repeating trash of this nature.

    Here are two of the many sites that discuss the issue of Dr. Spock's son's "suicide":
    Benjamin Spock - Wikipedia
    Doctored Spock - Snopes.com

    The Snopes.com article mentions that one psychologist and child-rearing researcher who's son did commit suicide was John B. Watson (1878-1958). This might be the source of your urban legend surround Benjamin Spock's son. Unfortunately for your argument, Watson's techniques draw from both sides of the debate on raising children, so it is impossible to say (provided it was his child-rearing techniques in the first place that were the cause... his son was 40 when he did the deed) which is responsible.

    The issue of researching sources has arisen a number of times already on this blog. The lack of concern for the accuracy of the information being digested and subsequently repeated is alarming.

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  3. Don’t pat yourself of the back too quickly Seanny.

    According to the links you provided, it was Dr. Spock’s grandson who committed suicide. “The seed of this rumor was undoubtedly planted when Dr. Spock's grandson Peter took his own life on 1983 by jumping from the roof of Boston's Children's Museum.”

    Dr. Spock, like so many other unnaturally successful social innovators, before he died admitted he was wrong in his teachings. He may have been unaware he was being used to establish a fashion to undermine parent guidance, but unfortunately being sorry does not undo the harm.

    Dr. Benjamin Spock was used His 'let them do as they like' philosophy did not gain world influence because of proven advantage; it was given prominence because it coincided with humanist plans for a promotion to break parental discipline and family unity. These people knew that if parents could be enticed to give up their authority, then the security of male/female roles would be reduced and would produce a generation of men and women less aware, less defensive of, their time-proven roles of trust and respect. As a result of Dr. Spock’s teachings, children have no fear of authority and they grow up with no understanding of truth.

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  4. P.S. Seanny –

    BlunTruth has finally posted his response to you and Jim at: God & the Death Penalty

    You might want to pull up a chair and sit back with a six-pack for this one.

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  5. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  6. Wow, Dani, perhaps you've been reading a bit too much Robert Ludlum. I think, before you can make claim to a malevolent cabal of humanists attempting to subvert the good morals of society, that you should support this claim. It's obvious to you, because it's likely what you've been told to believe, but I suspect that the dark forces of humanism are currently unaware of the evil plans that you are attributing to them.

    And I did notice your hubby's response. So far, it wasn't worth the wait.

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  7. I'm a believer who has spent hours and hours delving through scripture on this subject. I have also read the Pearl's book. I have found quite confidently that the two are not matches made in heaven. While I gave the book a fair reading, I also gave it a thorough evaluation. You and I simply disagree.

    I certainly know that spanking is not, and should not be the only form of guidance. The Bible gives us pages upon pages of wisdom and forms of instruction.

    You also cannot be comparing outcomes so strongly. My husband, who never once received a spanking, is a minister of the gospel, the most Godly man I know, amazing father and kick-butt spouse. Yet Solomon, who is the man who wrote specifically on corporal punishment, talked about beating sons with large rods, constantly, so much so that he had to comment on the fact that it would not kill them. And his son grew up to publicly mock his father's genitalia.

    I think you and I have some things in common. I'm just also someone who disagrees ... and I'm not a lesbian! ha!

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  8. Hi Christine – thanks for the comment.

    I am not suggesting that spanking is the only way to discipline, I was merely pointing out the verses that say we should to those who don’t believe in it.

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  9. Hi Dani,

    Well, sadly you would also be disagreeing with God.

    I wouldn't say that's true. The only person in the Bible who says that children should be hit with the rod is Solomon and, well, Solomon's son didn't turn out to be such a great example of good child-rearing. He was a bully who tried to over-tax the northern section of the kingdom and was disdainful of the advice of the elders. He ended up losing a great deal of the kingdom as a result.

    Honestly, I think the message the Bible is trying to give us is that spanking can cause resentfulness in the child and can be dangerous. Statistics today back this up as well. I once read that children who are spanked more than once a month have a much higher tendency of displaying some anti-social behaviors (like drinking a lot) when they become adults. Not all of them, of course, but a large percentage. It seems science today is proving what was written in the Bible centuries ago (well, I guess it depends on which way you interpret Rehoboam's terrible personality.)

    Think of it this way, imagine Solomon had said women who are pregnant out of wed lock should beat upon their stomaches and kill the child so it is not born. Then, it turns out his wife had done this earlier at some point and ended up unable to bear him sons in their marriage because of it. Then, she was cast out from the kingdom for her failure and died while wondering with no place of rest. If this were in the Bible, neither one of us would hesitate to use this as an example that God hates abortions. We would not quote Solomon's "kill your unborn child" we would point to the outcome as evidence of God's displeasure.

    Obedient and happy children are not produced by permissive parenting or natural and logical consequences.

    I know many children who were raised that way and are obedient and happy. In fact, the two most well behaved children I know were raised this way. And the best part is they are amazing Christians who are devoted to their faith as well. (The elder child won the regional Bible Quizzing competition and went on to State)

    Children who are not spanked in a biblical fashion grow up to be rebellious punks or criminals who disrespect authority and fear no real consequences because they were never given them as a child.

    Again, I'd point to the same children and Christine's minister husband to prove otherwise.

    Using time-outs in the "naughty corner" is only preparing children for prison

    So then, what is using physical pain preparing them for? An abusive relationship where the child grows up to be an abuser or victim?

    My question is, why cause children physical pain if we don't have to? Why leave them with memories of mom and dad hurting them, when so many great people are being produced from non-spanking environments?

    There are literally dozens of quotes in Bible which say children should be cherished. The only ones which mention the rod are the ones by Solomon, the defective father.

    Something else I find funny, you have dozens of liberals and atheists on here bashing you for your viewpoints, yet the only people who argue with you about not hitting kids and try to give their opinions about a better child environment are the religious people. I guess that shows where everyone else's priorities lie.

    Once again, I hope that you and your family have a great vacation. God Bless.

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  10. Greetings DB - My apologies for the delayed response again. Thanks for your continued patience and interest in this discussion.

    In regards to Biblical discipline, you said - "The only person in the Bible who says that children should be hit with the rod is Solomon and, well, Solomon's son didn't turn out to be such a great example of good child-rearing."

    Firstly, Dr. Spock’s grandson committed suicide, so the same could be said about his child-rearing examples.

    Secondly, your perspective on this depends largely on if you believe that the Bible is the inspired and infallible Word of God, not just men's interpretations.

    In order to trust what the Bible says about child-rearing you must believe that "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." - 2 Timothy 3:16

    Thirdly, if we are going to dismiss portions of the Bible because the authors were messed up in some way, we might as well toss out the entire thing. Real men wrote the Bible who were real sinners, but God’s grace abounds and He still inspired all the authors. King David was an adulterer and a murder, yet God called him "a man after His own heart" and inspired David to write the Psalms. The Apostle Paul devoted his life to persecuting Christians and murdering them, yet he was inspired to write the Gospel of Grace to the Gentiles in the New Testament. Much can be learned from the Holy Scriptures, and it is not wise to ignore parts of the Bible because it doesn't agree with our own ideas or with modern traditions.

    “Honestly, I think the message the Bible is trying to give us is that spanking can cause resentfulness in the child and can be dangerous. Statistics today back this up as well.”

    With all due respect, care to provide Biblical examples or non-biased statistics to prove your point?

    I would say this is where we disagree again. The Bible clearly teaches - “No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.” - Hebrews 12:11

    Further, the only statistics which supposedly “prove” this are put out by the left-wing, liberal, anti-spanking, anti-God crowd to further their agenda. A careful look at kids in society today quickly reveals that most of their parents have embraced Dr. Spock’s philosophy in child-rearing, yet the children are prone to temper tantrums, bad-mouthing, self-indulgent acts of defiance and criminal behavior. I did daycare for several years and ALL of the children I watched had these problems, yet none of the parents spanked. We see the same type of thing on shows like SuperNanny - Out-of-control, violent, bratty kids who are thrown in time-out and never spanked. Is this just a coincidence?

    As I linked to in the OP, a law enforcement officer who wrote this book would also disagree with you: NO FEAR: A Police Officer's Perspective - by Robert Surgenor

    >> Interviewing hundreds of juvenile offenders and their families, Detective Surgenor discovered that the majority of violent juvenile offenders came from homes where there is no corporal punishment or spanking. Surgenor proposes that today's parents have been influenced by psychologists to believe that corporal punishment is counter-productive and harmful to children. But, in fact, permissive, uncontrolled parenting is destructive to society. <<

    Now we must clarify that Biblical discipline is NOT abusive or violent. Christian parents who use spanking as a form of discipline do not do so in anger, or in an inconsistent, unpredictable fashion which could cause confusion, resentment or even rebellion in the child. Further, if training and discipline are done properly from an early age, the need to spank reduces dramatically. I know for us we only have to spank our kids once every couple of months (if that) because they know what is expected of them and they know the consequences for disobedience.

    “I know many children who were raised that way and are obedient and happy. In fact, the two most well behaved children I know were raised this way.”

    Perhaps we have different standards by which we define obedient??? But I have NEVER come across a happy and obedient child who was never spanked. Quite the opposite, in fact – from my experience children who are not spanked in a loving manner are the most miserable, obnoxious, unhappy little tyrants I encounter.

    “So then, what is using physical pain preparing them for?”

    Pain is a great deterrent to not disobey. It also provides an understanding that there is a physical consequence to sin which is painful, therefore as they grow older they will learn that it is wise not to sin. Plus, the point of a spanking is to bring about true repentance in our children so they become sensitive to the Holy Spirit and desire to live a life according to the will of God.

    “My question is, why cause children physical pain if we don't have to?… There are literally dozens of quotes in Bible which say children should be cherished.”

    If God thought there was another way, He would offer it. Do you think it was painful for His Son, Jesus Christ, to die on the cross for the sins of mankind?

    Remember, no discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace. The goal is eternal salvation, not temporary emotional pacification.

    Of course we should cherish our children, but God is clear that if parents spare the rod they HATE their child and desire his death. Likewise, if parents love their child, they will diligently discipline and punish him early.

    While you claim to know many great people who are being produced from non-spanking environments, I choose to trust in the everlasting wisdom of God’s Word rather than the fallible wisdom of man, knowing that the fruit of our obedience (and countless others who abide by God's teachings) is producing a harvest of righteousness in our children.

    I hope this helps you understand where I am coming from as a fundamental Christian. Please feel free to ask any further questions.

    Take Care & God Bless!

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  11. Hi Dani,

    Wow, that sounds like an amazing trip. I'm sorry about your husband's grandfather, though. May he rest in peace.

    I should clarify that I don't mean parents should be permissive in the sense of allowing children to misbehave or disobey. Any child who is left without firm guidance will fall off the path. I just mean the teaching and punishments should not include physical punishment or fear of it. My mother always said she didn't want her children to fear her disapproval, she wanted us to love and respect her so much that the idea of upsetting her was what guided us.

    It seems we will never agree. I certainly don't believe you are by any means abusing your children, but hitting does hurt. As a person who was never hit by my parents, I can't imagine what it would be like for them to cause me physical pain because I did something to displease them. The very idea of it makes me sad.

    I wish you the best, though, and hope that your children do grow up to be happy, good, people who are at peace. It has been great speaking with you and trading ideas and points of view. May you find much future happiness in your family and children.

    God Bless

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  12. I ran across your sight while researching the harm caused by spanking. I am a Christian. Raised by Christian parents that thought as you do. I have six brothers and sister.Five out of seven of us turned to drugs or became alcoholics. We all grew up resenting our parents and turned on them in our teen years. 2 even ran away from home. I vowed to raise my children with love not physical punishment. They loved and respected me. They wanted to please me , not out of fear. Just because they loved me so much they did not want to disappoint me. I just came home from a family vacation with my grown children. Who are also Christians. My daughters husband belives like you do . Needless to say it caused our vaction to be a nightmare. Our 4year old grandaughter was whipped everyday of our trip. For such small infraction as whining.This only mad her cry and become angry. She became so distraught she would claw herself and bump her head on the floor. Causing her parents to become more angry and threaten more spankings. I saw no joy love or repenting going on . Just tears ,fear, anger and 20 to 30 minute up in her face lectures going on. I consider this mental and physical abuse. Until I retired I worked In an elementary school and as a preschool teacher I also teach Sunday school . When a child is acting out I ask them ,What would your parents do if you acted like this at home. In my experience the ones who acted out the most and were more aggressive were the children who were spanked.

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  13. You either believe in the word of God. Or you Don't this is what makes a christian and a worldly human secularist. Sad but true. I have no other comment.
    God help those who with the tickling of ears will see this generation be destroyed by ungodly and seemly good child development methods. Methods not built on god but feeling. methods built on what you think is better or what should be as opposed to what the word of God says.

    God help this nation and the Bride of Christ who consistently feel they have a better way than yours Oh God.

    www.livingforjesus.blogspot.com

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  14. In response to DB and the other "Anti-Child Correctors"

    As a child, I was spanked, by hand, by belt, by razor strap, by even willow switch, (which I was allowed to choose the size of,my mistake.) Yet, I was never "Beaten" and all the spankings were for good cause. Cause I disobeyed.

    I am a Born Again Christian, do read the Bible, and believe it to be The Word Of God.

    My spankings gave me not resentment, not fear, not hate, not disgust, not a "reason to be sneaky", but instead, a respect and love for my dad, as he had the guts and the Bible teachings, to be able to correct me with love.

    Sure the spankings hurt!!! Yet, the pain soon left, and the love showed me what the reasons for them were. To give me an outlook on life, that I should respect pothers, do no evil to them around me, not take things that do not belong to me, and accept authority.

    God never commanded parents to "beat a child to death' as some claim. But, in the Old Law, it did have times the disobedient did get stoned to death, for disrespect.

    This was to show the result of people who disrespect God. when the New Testament time came into existence, it was emphasized to show love, but did not do away with the spanking of children for correction. Saul was knocked off his mule, to get his attention to begin living correctly. He was disobeying God by killing the Children of God, the Christians.

    Ananias and Sapphira were put to death by God for lying to Him. This life is only a beginning of things to come. A spanking may prevent a child from winding up in Hell, but some do not believe in that either.

    Sorry to say for them, whether they believe it or not, it is REAL and it opens it's mouth DAILY to receive those who are disobedient to God.

    It is your choice, believe it or not. You will be the one to pay for it if you choose wrong.

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  15. Thank you danni for your wisdom.

    i am not a man of great religion i do belive in a higher authority i belive the bible has alot of wisdom is it direct from god i dont know i cant say either way but i must say i do belive in its teachings of Discipline, i was raised with corporal punishment i learned at and early age of right and wrong by the time i was able to fully understand on my own i knew better than to steal,cheat,lie and disrespect others, when your parrents discipline you its generaly not to belittle or shame you its to teach you that what you are doing is wrong and has consequences, i am very grateful for the way my parrents raised me, i grew up with out trouble i joined the United States Army at 18 i am now retired at age 39 i have 6 wonderful children and all of them love me and my wife and are very happy and all were raised with corporal punnishment as i was, now to say that all discipline is ok its not there are limits that should never be crossed as one of your responders wrote that her 4 year old grand daughter was being disciplined for such minor behavior issues is an attrocity not only for the reasons she was being disciplined for but the manor in which the discipline was given, discipline needs to fit the crime and as such the age of the offenders needs to be considdered befor handing out any type of punnishment and mind you with punnishment should also be able to reward your children for doing good it has to be a two way street you cant have one with out the other giving incentive for good behavior is a good thing im not saying to lavish your children with toys or what nots most of the time simple priase for their good deeds is enough. now i have to say alot of the people responding to your article here are people with very little knowledge of raiseing children or no knowledge what so ever just becasue you presume to know children who were raised with out PHYSICAL disciplne does not mean they were not disciplined you dont have to beat your child to discipline them some times talking is enough if you have started the discpline early enough that they know respect if and when the child has continued to act out or missbeahve enough to warrent a spanking yes by all means spank the child its far better to hurt now than to feel the pain of loss becasue we didnt teach our children doing drugs was bad and they over dosed or playing with guns was dangerous and they shot themselves or some one else.

    it saddens me that people dont see the mass change in our society since the late 60's ever think about how low crime was befor the 70's how low murder rate was how low the overdoseing was and 99.9% of every person in the U.S. was raised with corporal punnishment the only murder or theft was from the mob or the mexican cartels and even those were lower than what it is now and i truely belive its due to lack of discipline in the home

    i do know its hard when you are a single parrent but its not impossible i know this becasue my mother did it with 4 children.

    i hope some of this can help those of you who are in doubt about how to raise your children.
    may you all be blessed in all you do.

    AEM

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